Smuggler with Australian native orchids - the power of the media

[Stone]

over-reaction of the day!

Its not an over-recation if you know what really goes on in customs.
I have little respect for their laws. I knew a guy who worked in customs and the stories he told me would make your hair stand on end. Payoffs, secret dealings etc. Any amount of illegal activity while the poor bastard who wants to do the right thing, pays good money to have his plants promptly gassed with methyl bromide and if not killed, most (that I've seen) are never the same. Orchid Conservation in Action!! Most would not know the difference between an orchid and a cabbage. Well informed decisions are rarely made when the people working there have almost 0 knowledge of the subject they're dealing with everyday.
I know for an ABSOLUTE FACT that ''Botanical institutions'' inculding Australian, send each other all manner of plant material including Cites plants which never see customs.
The whole thing is a big joke. They gass every plant brought in ''legally'' and then quarantine them at high cost to the importer but its ok to have your shoes and clothing contaminated with soil or god knows what from any nursery or rainforest you happened to visit overseas. (too much trouble to check that and no money to be made)
A soak in a good fungicide/insecticide is all that's required and it would save thousands of plants from death.
Yes AQIS had a ''right'' to sieze the plants but I'm not going to clap my hands in support of bunch of fools. If I could afford it and get away with it, I would bring in as many (LEGALLY SEED GROWN) plants as I could lay my hands on and not feel the slightest bit of guilt. And I'm sure many others would do the same but most wouldn't say.
In the old days (50's and 60's) there were ''tons'' of orchids imported from all over the place ripped out of the forest in India, Burma etc. Where are all the diseases?

 

[Stone]

Now this guy can ACT!
:rollhappy::rollhappy::rollhappy:

 

[Gcroz]

What a F**kn bunch of F**kn D**k Heads. It just confirms that the stupid f**king creeps would have absof**inlutely no f**kin clue if their arses were on f**kn fire!! They deserve a damn good thrashing:rollhappy:

+1

 

[Howzat]

Its not an over-recation if you know what really goes on in customs.
I have little respect for their laws. I knew a guy who worked in customs and the stories he told me would make your hair stand on end. Payoffs, secret dealings etc. Any amount of illegal activity while the poor bastard who wants to do the right thing, pays good money to have his plants promptly gassed with methyl bromide and if not killed, most (that I've seen) are never the same. Orchid Conservation in Action!! Most would not know the difference between an orchid and a cabbage. Well informed decisions are rarely made when the people working there have almost 0 knowledge of the subject they're dealing with everyday.
I know for an ABSOLUTE FACT that ''Botanical institutions'' inculding Australian, send each other all manner of plant material including Cites plants which never see customs.
The whole thing is a big joke. They gass every plant brought in ''legally'' and then quarantine them at high cost to the importer but its ok to have your shoes and clothing contaminated with soil or god knows what from any nursery or rainforest you happened to visit overseas. (too much trouble to check that and no money to be made)
A soak in a good fungicide/insecticide is all that's required and it would save thousands of plants from death.
Yes AQIS had a ''right'' to sieze the plants but I'm not going to clap my hands in support of bunch of fools. If I could afford it and get away with it, I would bring in as many (LEGALLY SEED GROWN) plants as I could lay my hands on and not feel the slightest bit of guilt. And I'm sure many others would do the same but most wouldn't say.
In the old days (50's and 60's) there were ''tons'' of orchids imported from all over the place ripped out of the forest in India, Burma etc. Where are all the diseases?

I think to a large extent, I can agree with this. Not many custom or AQIS officers know about orchids. They would also send an order "to be destroyed" if they think the flask contains seedlings that has only a small brown mark on the leaf. 1 leaf out of the entire flask. Only after much hagling they sometimes ordered the flask into quarantine.
What worries me is that they are so obsessed with "their knowledge of disease" when they were not 100% sure. Disease in flask would normally infect the media NOT the leaf. AND YET they allow the importation of Chinese apple, Mexican mangos or oranges from Chille or USA without looking at every piece of apples or mangos, Oh Yes they are 100% sure that those fruit are free from any disease or chemical, which in fact if they are wrong, could affect human health. NO they are not worried about human health but Yes they are convinced that one brown leaf in a flask is posing more danger than Unchecked imported fruit.

 

[Howzat]

Exporting hybrid plants (9 tiny hybrids of no Australian connection) is a crime under Australian law. But for a government Department to misinform, (whether deliberately or out of ignorance or to feel the glory), the public at large that those plants were indeed Australian native is 100 times worse than the "crime " itself.
Roth may face humiliation in countries that he may visit in the future, as a native species orchid smugler. I think he has grounds to believe that he has been libeliously portrait as such.

 

[s1214215]

Just a note, be careful guys what you do say here. DAFF does monitor this site. That much I know for sure having had a DAFF senior inspector once ask me to confirm that I was s1214215 on this site. I regularly import orchid flasks and plants and they do keep an eye orchid forums. Good or bad, its what they do and for anyone who imports to Oz, I would consider this.

Brett

 

[s1214215]

Also, be they little or small, hybrids or species, if you seek to take plants out of Australia without the correct permits you are breaking the law. It was made clear on the AOC website how to get these permits.

 

[SelectOrchids]

Also, be they little or small, hybrids or species, if you seek to take plants out of Australia without the correct permits you are breaking the law. It was made clear on the AOC website how to get these permits.

- The AOC Website did not mention about exporting orchids out of Australia indeed, because they were not suppose to. It is a national conference, and we were not so many foreigners ( and quite a lot at the same time).

- I agree with you if you do not have the correct permits, however, the points are that those plants are dendrobium and cattleya hybrids, juvenile, still in their pots with industrial printed tags. The story is then a bit different. In fact, I reread the Act 1999 and the law appending, and I failed to find out anything about hybrid orchids, as well as CITES in the core of the text. I wait to get another version, to confirm, but there is a legal flaw in the core of the text ( in fact not only one). Most people who do real smuggling and are caught prefer to pay a couple thousands AUD of fine and go out, rather than to go to the court, make a legal analysis of the Act, a long process (but interesting), and eventually end up 10 years of jail and 100000AUD of fine. So no one before had a purpose to challenge some parts of the law.

- Nothing to complain about the Customs officers in Perth, they got an informant tip, they did their jog, but not on Australian Native Orchids after all...

- The media report is pure libel, in its extreme quintessence. It goes on even to the extent of not including the quantity ( you can find a guy where they counted the boxes of ants, and how many ants totally, and put it in the media, all the drug smuggling, knives reports have the detailed quantity, but not those orchids hybrids, 9 plants is maybe not enough to be impressive). It has been written by people who just want to make something 'outstanding and interesting' out of a really small story, without ethics, to serve their own personal glory, as previously said. I give them a chance to correct the whole report, maybe they did make a mistake, but otherwise we go to a 5-6 digit lawyer and a long court case for libel.

 

[gonewild]

I am sympathetic to your cause but....

-
- I agree with you if you do not have the correct permits, however, the points are that those plants are dendrobium and cattleya hybrids, juvenile, still in their pots with industrial printed tags.

The problem is that you did not have the export certificate from the AU agency identifying the plants as hybrids. Just because they have industrial printed tags does not mean they are actually what the tag says. How many smugglers change the labels and try to export orchids......many. It is common knowledge that the inspectors don't know diddly about orchid id so they must rely on paperwork, unfortunately for you you did not have any for them.

- The media report is pure libel, in its extreme quintessence. It goes on even to the extent of not including the quantity ( you can find a guy where they counted the boxes of ants, and how many ants totally, and put it in the media, all the drug smuggling, knives reports have the detailed quantity, but not those orchids hybrids, 9 plants is maybe not enough to be impressive). It has been written by people who just want to make something 'outstanding and interesting' out of a really small story, without ethics, to serve their own personal glory, as previously said. I give them a chance to correct the whole report, maybe they did make a mistake, but otherwise we go to a 5-6 digit lawyer and a long court case for libel.

You have just defined "acceptable" 21st century journalism.

 

[SelectOrchids]

I am sympathetic to your cause but....

The problem is that you did not have the export certificate from the AU agency identifying the plants as hybrids. Just because they have industrial printed tags does not mean they are actually what the tag says. How many smugglers change the labels and try to export orchids......many. It is common knowledge that the inspectors don't know diddly about orchid id so they must rely on paperwork, unfortunately for you you did not have any for them.

(snap)
You have just defined "acceptable" 21st century journalism.

Actually, the industrial printed tags were part of the pot, and the plant was rooted in the pot, so that could be a good indication of what they are, but you are right...

The problem being that they are said to be 'Australian Native Orchids', which means that the people who wrote the news report identified them as Australian Native Orchids... that's where their screw up is, because they are obviously Cattleya. When people don't know, they can speak about 'orchids', and finish. Those plants are orchids, if no one knows the proper identification, they remain as orchids. Stating 'Australian Native' is just to make the matter important, and get a nice thing to put online on their news website...

As for smuggling, indeed, but in most cases the plants pass with the proper name, and the proper CITES permit, just they have that cute 'A' appended on the CITES. That's a key point, most really smuggled orchids are smuggled... with the proper permits, except the real source ( wild instead of artificially propagated...). In this CITES is highly inefficient to serve its real purpose.

Journalism, indeed, but not only 21st Century. Beginning of the 20th Century, people started the 1st World War because of some journalists who reported tampered breaking news. We got, thanks to that and them too, the 2nd World War, with 'a few' casualties' if your unit is millions. The problem is a total lack of ethics in reporting the news. One time, I went to a Middle East country for 3 weeks, spent time there, discussed with the people, including some officials, very high rank, Muslims. No problem, and it was interesting. Interesting too that gays are absolutely accepted, as a kind of mistake, but the Ayatollah declared that, because there is a hope that they are real women with a medical problem, they must be accepted as gays. I have seen quite a few openly gay people during my stay. In regard to Islam, to protect them from attacks by ignorant people, they are just said to be a slight medical mistake, that can be corrected by surgery shall they wish... ( stupid according to our westerner standards, and definitely unacceptable, but in a hardcore Islamic country, to keep up with their belief, it is not so bad, the law is unacceptable, but the result is that gays and lesbians are free to do whatever they want, to some extent, in the streets or wherever...). That's a hardcore, Islamic country, that is quoted as bad and primitive by the journalists ( and believe it too, their scientist, including in agriculture, do not have to be envious of Europe or the USA...).

In a more 'tolerant' country, they got the diameter of their ******* checked, in Lebanon, to assess whether they are gays or not, which is one of the most disgusting things I have ever heard. Yet Lebanon is said to be a nice country by the journalists...

When I came back to France, journalists all over the world reported about 2 of those people I met, they refuse any foreigner, any Christian, they are assholes, they do not talk, they are primitive ( go for it, they spoke perfect French and knew a lot about our history ! And it was not a former French colony, far from it), the mass murders in the streets, the unveiled women that were beaten in that specific city ( they should have rented couple hundreds people to beat all the unveiled ones I have seen there, and it was not 'scheduled' by the authorities, I walked sometimes very far alone, and could see their real life...).

The same applies more recently to the 'resistance' in one country at war now, some are actual opponents, very few. The others are Middle Age Neanderthal people that the media push as 'victims' and 'good guys', like for many countries in the Arab Spring, but they are just so primitive that we do not want them anywhere, They want to allow only one book, the original Quaran, not even the Hadith or the commentaries by later islamic authorities, and ban music, as 'the only music acceptable is the recitation of the Quaran'.

I have been there, met them. Journalist were happy too with the 'Arab Spring' that see women as a support for the men, with not too many rights, or the millions of tons of mass destruction weapons of Saddam Hussein farce, that in fact turned a corrupt, dictatorial country in a law less rogue country, with real bad guys ( though good 'opponents') there now.

Anyway, back to orchids and after that rambling.

 

[Hakone]

John Swinton sur l '«indépendance» de la presse

John Swinton | rédacteur en chef du New York Times


"Une presse libre n'existe pas. Vous, chers amis savent que, et je
serait de même. Pas un seul parmi vous oserait son Avis de dire honnêtement et ouvertement. Le commercial est un publiciste plutôt, de détruire la vérité, de mentir purement et simplement, à pervertir, à la calomnie, au fauve aux pieds de Mammon, et lui-même et de sa race vendre au souci du pain quotidien, encore et encore. nous sommes Outils et esclaves des puissances financières dans les coulisses. Nous sommes le Marionnettes danser et de sauter quand ils tirent sur ​​le fil. Nos compétences nos capacités et même nos vies appartiennent à ces hommes. Nous ne sommes rien de plus que les prostituées intellectuelles ».


John Swinton (1830-1901) à une compilation NYC journaliste ", 12 Avril 1893

(Source:. Untold Story Laboratoire, publié par Richard O. Boyer et Herbert M. Morais, de la United Electrical, Radio and Machine Workers of America, New York, 1955/1979)


"A free press does not exist. You, dear friends know, and I would be the same. No one among you dare to say its Opinion honestly and openly. The mall is a publicist rather to destroy the truth, to lie outright, to pervert, to slander, to fawn at the feet of Mammon, and himself and his race in order to sell daily bread, and again . Tools we are slaves and financial powers behind the scenes. We are the puppets dance and jump when they pull on the wire. Our skills and our abilities even our lives belong to these men. We are nothing more than intellectual prostitutes. "