Something wrong with selfings...

[dodidoki]

Pearls from the near past...all of them are self crosses without exeption with disappointing flowers.

 

[dodidoki]

Pics

 

[orchid527]

I can't identify all of these. Are they both species and hybrids? Did you grow several of each? The reason I ask is that I recently did a selfing of a nice hangianum, and while I am expecting a few duds, I don't want them all to be duds. Mike

 

[dodidoki]

All are species, some were very expensive ( eg. Cattleya lawrenceana coerulea was 250 usd as a little seedling, selected cross)

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Hmmmm do you use systemic fungicides or bactericides? Growth stimulators like kelp and auxins? Have they bloom 2 years in a row like this?

 

[dodidoki]

Hmmmm do you use systemic fungicides or bactericides? Growth stimulators like kelp and auxins? Have they bloom 2 years in a row like this?

I don t use hormones or chemicals.All of them are first bloomer grown from seedling.

 

[Ozpaph]

It why you cant marry close relatives!

 

[monocotman]

I don’t think that these deformities are necessarily due to the seedlings being selfings. Many selfing produce lots of decent plants. Maybe there is something else going on. I would flower them all again before making a decision on them.
David

 

[Hien]

I don t use hormones or chemicals.All of them are first bloomer grown from seedling.

Were all the selfing done by you? there must be siblings which look good ?
-if not by you, maybe the cloning effort produced mutation ( a lot of cattleya types are cloned instead of selfing)
-this is only first bloom ? the next one maybe better
-on the other hand I would not throw the green paph out, the tiny pouch is one of a kind , and one of a kind is very collectible in Asia, old money rich Taiwanese /Japanese collectors or new money rich Vietnamese/mainland China collectors might pay million dollars for it, ( I saw dendrobiums in Vietnam that sold for amounts which would make any of us faint, the reasons for the high price are always 'ONE OF A KIND'

 

[dodidoki]

Were all the selfing done by you? there must be siblings which look good ?
-if not by you, maybe the cloning effort produced mutation ( a lot of cattleya types are cloned instead of selfing)
-this is only first bloom ? the next one maybe better
-on the other hand I would not throw the green paph out, the tiny pouch is one of a kind , and one of a kind is very collectible in Asia, old money rich Taiwanese /Japanese collectors or new money rich Vietnamese/mainland China collectors might pay million dollars for it, ( I saw dendrobiums in Vietnam that sold for amounts which would make any of us faint, the reasons for the high price are always 'ONE OF A KIND'

Many thanks, Hien.I won t throw them out till next blooming.I have many other plants with good quality flowers , I just collect them here because all are selfings and all are first bloomer.They are suspect for some recessive genetical abnormalities.That is the reason why i prefer sibcrosses or divisions.Unfortunately divisions sometimes are abnormally high prized.That is the problem....

 

[richgarrison]

mother nature can be a fickle thing... the spent bloom was perfect as well the one after the 'grenade flower' and the next bud appears to be developing normally also... 3rd year flowering and all other years were normal...

 

[monocotman]

Is till think that there is something else to blame. Selfings may produce a higher number of abnormal plants but it is very rare that is above a few percent.
David

 

[Hien]

Many thanks, Hien.I won t throw them out till next blooming.I have many other plants with good quality flowers , I just collect them here because all are selfings and all are first bloomer.They are suspect for some recessive genetical abnormalities.That is the reason why i prefer sibcrosses or divisions.Unfortunately divisions sometimes are abnormally high prized.That is the problem....

I have a thought here, there maybe is a chance someone (who does not have the original mother plant to either perform the selfing nor the mericlone of the mother plant directly)
That person did a mericloning of one of the selfing children., and called it a selfing, thus starts to introduce the mutation in the mericloning process .
example:
1) cattleya 'Z' x self is a real selfing
2) mericloning of cattleya 'Z' itself (mericlone the awarded real plan)
3) mericloning [ cattleya 'Z' x self ] (mericlone of one of the selfing children, yet calling it a selfing)

 

[dodidoki]

Mine selfings are self crosses.Most of them are grown by me but eg. Cattl. gigas semialba came to me in sheath.

 

[SouthPark]

It's a numbers/stats thing - as we know. Some interesting or out-of-the-ordinary things can be seen like this every once in a while. Being different from the rest can be kind of nice! As in being able to see some variation for a nice change hehe

 

[DrLeslieEe]

There are several reasons for breeders and conservationists to perform selfings to validate its use:

1. To continue a one of a kind color form or variety (eg the only alba in existence)
2. To strengthen a particular trait that it has (example is a small tiny flare called pincelada in petal to make a larger flare called flamea)
3. To check the validity of a suspect species (an example is to self Kenny to see if offsprings show consistency or traits of loddigesii)
4. To save the species from extinction (seeds can be saved)
5. To check the genetic plasticity of the genes (to see if it’s a poly/aneu-ploid)

A selfing will enhance strong traits as well as allowing bad recessive traits to come through. Only by flowering a hundred or so plants and selecting the best can a specific desired trait be stabilized. Unfortunately you will have to see a lot of weird ones to find a great one. That is the nature of genetics.

 

[dodidoki]

Of course, if there is only one plant eg. an albino form, self cross works.Note bene if there is a possibility i prefer mericloning.Anyway sibcross is better way, if possible preventing recessive abnormalities.My problem is not only wasting of money but wasting of a lot of time for these beasts. Conclusion: if i can choose in the future, i will buy only sib crosses, mericlones or divisions.