Tall Plants under Light Set Up

[Happypaphy7]

I don't have light set up yet, but I will soon have to.
I have some tall dendrobiums that I would love to keep with me.

For those of you who grow orchids under light set up, and have tall plants (over 2 ft tall and require very high light), how do you provide light even to the entire plants?
I have about five, but I want more. I probably have to limit the numbers to just what I have.

Thanks in advance!

 

[Lanmark]

I use LED flood (40° beam angle) and narrow flood lamps (25° beam angle) from TCP at a distance of about 2 feet above the plants using cheap DIY track lighting strips from Lowes. I use the two types of lamps together so I can spotlight each plant with a 25° angle bulb and get additional coverage for the shadows from the 40° bulbs. I have had great success with both the 4100K and 5000K bulbs growing Neos, Phals, Catts, etc.

http://www.amazon.com/TCP-LED17E26P3850KNFL-17-watt-Floodlight-5000-Kelvin/dp/B007FUPL5W/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1440272466&sr=8-17&keywords=tcp+led+narrow+flood

http://www.dwellsmart.com/Products/TCP/TCP-PAR38-LED-Lamp-23W-Non-Dimmable

http://www.dwellsmart.com/Products/TCP/TCP-Elite-PAR38-LED-Lamp-for-Wet-Locations

http://www.dwellsmart.com/Products/TCP/TCP-Elite-PAR38-LED-Lamp

TCP lamps have been great for me, but it seems now that they are discontinuing some of the bulbs I have been using and/or changing up their product line. They've become harder to find. I'm not real happy about it, but what can I do? I will have to change with the times and/or maybe find a new product line of bulbs to use eventually. The TCP have been very durable, bright and long-lasting. It's a pity really. You might try searching on eBay for these lamps as well. Buy new, not used.

 

[Justin]

put them on hangers and hang them off the side of the lightsand near the lamps.

 

[Happypaphy7]

I use LED flood (40° beam angle) and narrow flood lamps (25° beam angle) from TCP at a distance of about 2 feet above the plants using cheap DIY track lighting strips from Lowes. I use the two types of lamps together so I can spotlight each plant with a 25° angle bulb and get additional coverage for the shadows from the 40° bulbs. I have had great success with both the 4100K and 5000K bulbs growing Neos, Phals, Catts, etc.

http://www.amazon.com/TCP-LED17E26P3850KNFL-17-watt-Floodlight-5000-Kelvin/dp/B007FUPL5W/ref=sr_1_17?ie=UTF8&qid=1440272466&sr=8-17&keywords=tcp+led+narrow+flood

http://www.dwellsmart.com/Products/TCP/TCP-PAR38-LED-Lamp-23W-Non-Dimmable

http://www.dwellsmart.com/Products/TCP/TCP-Elite-PAR38-LED-Lamp-for-Wet-Locations

http://www.dwellsmart.com/Products/TCP/TCP-Elite-PAR38-LED-Lamp

TCP lamps have been great for me, but it seems now that they are discontinuing some of the bulbs I have been using and/or changing up their product line. They've become harder to find. I'm not real happy about it, but what can I do? I will have to change with the times and/or maybe find a new product line of bulbs to use eventually. The TCP have been very durable, bright and long-lasting. It's a pity really. You might try searching on eBay for these lamps as well. Buy new, not used.

How many light bulbs did you use? and with LED, I didn't know you can have 2 feet between the plants and the light source. That seems rather too far.

Those three genera you mentioned are not a problem, except that cattleyas can come in rather big size, but I guess manageable unless you get something like guttata.

 

[Happypaphy7]

put them on hangers and hang them off the side of the lightsand near the lamps.

But then the plants will lean toward the light, plus the other side of the plants won't be getting light.

This is such a headache.
I will have to find a different place with south window then. Or I have to give up these plants. Oh, well...

 

[Lanmark]

How many light bulbs did you use? and with LED, I didn't know you can have 2 feet between the plants and the light source. That seems rather too far.

Those three genera you mentioned are not a problem, except that cattleyas can come in rather big size, but I guess manageable unless you get something like guttata.

The key to my success is that these are PAR38 lamps with lenses on them which focus the beams into a much more concentrated light source. This allows you to place a lot more distance between your plants and the LED light source than with LED light sources most commonly used for plants such as those which replace and imitate fluorescent tubes. For high light plants I generally use one 25° bulb per plant and then for a group of several plants I add in a couple of 40° bulbs from different angles to cover any shadowed areas. You can grow plants of just about any size using focused beam LEDs. You might need three 17 watt 25° bulbs for a massive cattleya plant but it still works quite well. For even greater space between the light source and your plants you can use even smaller beam angles such as 10° spotlights and place them three or four feet away.

Your initial output of cash will set you back a bit for these bulbs, but considering they use only 17 to 23 watts apiece, your energy savings should add up, especially compared to HID lamps. They put out much less heat than HID as well. I wouldn't go below 14 watts per lamp or you might not get enough light intensity to grow your plants well. There are other brands out there besides TCP, but beware of cheaply made knockoffs. They won't last. There are also very high end LED PAR38 lamps made such as ALT (Aeon Lighting) but they are much more expensive than the TCP brand which I have been using up 'til now.

If you Google the light spectrum charts for 4100K and 5000K LED lamps you will see that more than sufficient quantities of both the proper blue and red wavelengths are present for growing healthy plants. Once you get into the 6500K and 6700K lamps, you will lose a lot of the red end of the spectrum.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ray]

Back when I grew exclusively under lights (50/50 wattage-wise, cold white fluorescent and incandescent) 40 years ago, I simply amassed the wattage at a single level, then placed shelves under the small, high-light plants, put the low-light ones lower, and the tall guys stood in-between.

Why wouldn't that work with LED's?

 

[Lanmark]

If you used several of these 40° 5000K bulbs at 1.75 to 2 feet distance from the tops of your plants you might not even need to use 25° bulbs. It helps to be able to adjust your sockets and angle your bulbs as needed.

http://www.amazon.com/Vanlite-Par38-5000k-Daylight-Dimmable/dp/B00S9AGS0Y/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1440368554&sr=8-6&keywords=LED+spotlight+par38

Here are some of the 25° angle TCP LEDs at 17 watts each and 4100K: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TCP-LED17P38D41KNFL-LED-17-Watt-PAR38-120W-Equal-6360-Candlepower-25-/151499750006?hash=item234616ba76

http://www.elightbulbs.com/catalog_product.cfm?source=ShoppingCSE&prod=TC24581

Here are some at 19 watts: http://www.ebay.com/itm/TCP-LED-Dimmable-19-Watt-PAR-38-Neutral-White-4100K-Pack-of-3-Lamps-/171852925310?hash=item28033b897e

Ray has some great LED lamps as well, but I believe his are for use fairly close over the tops of the plants or for use as supplemental light sources (supplemental to natural lighting). To get the distance you were asking about between your lamps and your plants, you need to use focused beam lamps.

There are also large, high intensity security type led flood lamps for use in parking lots and so forth which could light large areas for you. http://www.dhgate.com/store/product/led-ultrathin-20w-10w-30w-50w-waterproof/203018062.html What size and how many you would need would depend on whether you are supplementing natural light or using them as a sole light source. Rob Halgren (user id littlefrog here) might know more about these than I do.

 

[Happypaphy7]

Thanks for all the info.

If I do move to this new apartment (not sure yet), I will only have northwestern exposure with no sunlight (at least not direct sun) at all, and I will have to rely on light set up entirely.

So that last one seems very nice, but I don't think I see the size of the bulb. Probably very big. Then, I could use a couple of them to grow tall plants, but the question still remains how many and how far apart from each other.

Regarding the placement of several bulbs ( as in how far or close several bulbs are spread apart), say, I have a shelving rack of 4' x 2', then how many of the first example ( 40 watt 5000K) type would I have to use for paphs and for high light plants? and the distance between the plants (of those two different types) and the light source??
and would that be better than using the more common or typical set up of using thin long light bulbs like T5?

 

[Lanmark]

Those huge rectangular outdoor floodlights will probably need to be wired. I don't have a lot of information about them. I do know someone who will be using them as supplemental lighting in her greenhouse this winter. My best guess is that she will install at least two of them at 50 watts each. I don't know whether she will install cool white, warm white or a blend of the two. They are super bright floodlights and might not be practical for indoor use unless you plan on growing medical marijuana. :rollhappy:

Regarding the placement of several PAR38 bulbs...first of all, I don't grow Paphs, so I don't know their light requirements. I mainly grow Neofinetia falcata and Phalaenopsis. Neos require fairly high light. Phals take less. For a 4' x 2' shelf, if growing Neos -- and Neos are short, I would probably try using 4 or 5 of those 5000K 40° beam angle 18 watt bulbs (they are not 40 watt as you stated) at a distance of about 21 inches above the tops of my Neo plants. I'd probably grow my Phals at a distance of 24 inches under the same set of bulbs. Any less than 2 feet might be too close for the Phals, depending on the variety.

I'm sorry I can't be any more precise than that. You kind of have to experiment and watch your plants closely until you get to know the light bulbs better. Four of those bulbs will put out a total of 4400 lumens, but most of those lumens will be focused down onto your growing area. LEDs like this waste/scatter a lot less light than what T5 tubes waste even with reflectors. If you need more light, add another bulb or decrease the distance between your plants and the lights. If you need less light, remove a bulb, or keep the number of light bulbs the same and simply increase the distance between your plants and the lights a few more inches. It's all about trial and hopefully not too much error. Watch your plants closely for signs of bleaching or stretching and adjust accordingly.

Personally I much prefer the LEDs over T5s. I've had superb results with great healthy growth, great leaf color, and great blooming. Currently I am growing and blooming a couple of small Phals (both are schilleriana hybrids) with each plant having its own led light bulb, a 25° beam angle 17 watt 4100K TCP LED PAR38. I'm getting great results with the distance between the face of the lamps and the tops of the leaves being right at 29 inches. I can put that much distance between the lamps and the plant tops because of the narrow 25° beam angle of the light bulbs I am using. You will need to keep those 18 watt 5000K 40° beam angle bulbs a little bit closer to your plants than this because of the wider beam angle.

Other bulbs to consider are these pink/blue LED bulbs made specifically for plants. I can't really give any advice on how to use them since I haven't ever actually used any of them, but I'm quite sure they'd effectively grow plants:

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00LJVLSLY/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=371UVBJLQCN9N&coliid=IGOHEKAM0811K&psc=1

For this next link, check out the 12 watt, the 20 watt and the 35 watt versions. The 12 watt version is similar to the one shown above. The 35 watt version looks amazingly powerful and would probably need to be mounted three feet (or maybe more) above the tops of your plants. It's a spotlight so the circle of light it gives will be intense but won't be very big around. The 20 watter might be a more practical alternative to those big floodlights I mentioned at the top of this post since this one is already wired and comes with a plug. I'd avoid the 5 watt, the 10 watt and the 45 watt versions.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00RFFV4XK/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_S_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=371UVBJLQCN9N&coliid=IQ1LG3DPH237O&psc=1

This next one is a warm color (golden-ish) self-ballasted 23 watt HID bulb, but it emits some blue rays in there as well. It could be useful, but it will put out much more heat than an LED:

http://www.amazon.com/GE-76226-ConstantColor-Self-Ballasted-CMHI23P38WFL/dp/B004283UEO/ref=pd_sim_sbs_60_1?ie=UTF8&refRID=126Y2D1M3SN1G2AJPTDW

Here's another LED made specifically for plants, but it's white and not pink and blue. It's a bit pricey for what it is. I don't know what the beam angle is nor how well it really works. If going for a bulb made specifically for plants, I'd probably choose from the others shown above.

http://www.amazon.com/dp/B00I38DZS0/ref=wl_it_dp_o_pC_nS_ttl?_encoding=UTF8&colid=371UVBJLQCN9N&coliid=I356VHOD1CPMR9

Finally, here are the sockets I use:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_197724-47842-17308-000___?productId=1229537&pl=1&Ntt=track+lighting+head#BVRRWidgetID

Here are the tracks:

http://www.lowes.com/pd_169664-47842-14905-001_1z0vgceZ1z101l4__?productId=1217985&pl=1

http://www.lowes.com/pd_232833-47842-175004-002_1z0vgceZ1z101l4__?productId=1235927&pl=1

Here's the adapter which plugs into one end of the track and provides you with a cord and a power plug:

http://www.lowes.com/ProductDisplay?partNumber=232976-47842-105026-002&langId=-1&storeId=10151&productId=1207739&catalogId=10051&cmRelshp=req&rel=nofollow&cId=PDIO1

 

[paphs999]

You might try a Platinum LED light.
I have a 300p version and it is working very well. It cost me about $6.00 to run it for 15 hours last month. I was told that the bulbs last for 10 years.
I'm hoping it will work for the assortment of orchids I have.
This light is sold through amazon.com, BTW. The parts are American made, but the lights are assembled and dropped shipped from Hong Kong. They are less expensive that way, and the savings are passed on to the customer.
I really don't understand why more indoor orchid growers haven't been checking into this.

 

[Lanmark]

That Platinum light looks great! I'd love to hear how it works out for you.

 

[bullsie]

First off, let me say I know nothing about lights or electricity (except for checking fencing and turning things on and off). But I too have been looking into supplemental lighting for my Catts - and I have tall guys too.

I found this - while I no nothing of the lights themselves - the picture they have given for it is the type of set up I am thinking will work for me if I can pull it off.

http://www.amazon.com/TaoTronics®-b..._sbs_60_3?ie=UTF8&refRID=05QH4133PJJ2F4141QNE

I love the track lighting systems that have been submitted here. I guess a question now I have is, would a bar light fixture used in bathrooms above sinks be adaptable to such an arrangement. Here again folks, I don't have a clue about wiring anything or the possibilities or impossibilities. Thoughts?

 

[Lanmark]

I think a bathroom bar light fixture would be more trouble than it's worth unless you plan on growing your plants on the bathroom sink. First of all, to use one anywhere else, it would either need to be hard-wired and installed directly into your electrical system or altered and rigged up with a cord and a plug. Secondly, can you adjust the direction of the light sockets so the bulbs can be pointed here or there at will, or are the sockets in a fixed position? Thirdly, will the fixture accept PAR38 bulbs?

The inexpensive track lighting system I use allows the sockets to be moved along the track and angled at will. It is "plug and play" and I can add or remove sockets. The sockets I use have an outer metal casing surrounding a ceramic socket. There is no trim or lampshade to get in the way of the PAR38 bulbs I use.

 

[bullsie]

Lanmark, thank you! I have to look into the track lighting then.

 

[Wendy]

Back when I grew exclusively under lights (50/50 wattage-wise, cold white fluorescent and incandescent) 40 years ago, I simply amassed the wattage at a single level, then placed shelves under the small, high-light plants, put the low-light ones lower, and the tall guys stood in-between.

Why wouldn't that work with LED's?

I like your suggestion Ray. That's how I did it when I used fluorescent bulbs. Kept it simple.

 

[paphs999]

Lanmark,
I have been growing orchids (catts, a paph, phal, dendrobium) under the Platinum Led light since April of this year.
At this time, I have two different repotted cattleyas under this light which have established themselves and both are setting sheathes two each! ....
I keep the light about 2 feet over the plants.
Trouble is, I'm at full capacity
now. I'll probably buy another!
You can use this light right out of the box! It has 4 hangers included. I use a pair of ratchets and pulleys to raise and lower the light. Those are very handy!

 

[Happypaphy7]

I just looked up that Platinum LED products and they are not what I'm looking for. It's those creept blue and red light again.
Also, the link for the product on Amazon also is the creepy red and blue light.
Even their pictures are deceiving for people who do not know better.
Notice how the lights are turned off in some of the pictures and only emphasizing healthy flowering plants and veggies with fruits to give wrong impression.
Pictures where the lights are on, are heavily photoshopped to minimize the creepy blue red light effects.

I'm looking for colorless light set up, so that I can enjoy looking at my plants.

 

[Happypaphy7]

I think a bathroom bar light fixture would be more trouble than it's worth unless you plan on growing your plants on the bathroom sink. First of all, to use one anywhere else, it would either need to be hard-wired and installed directly into your electrical system or altered and rigged up with a cord and a plug. Secondly, can you adjust the direction of the light sockets so the bulbs can be pointed here or there at will, or are the sockets in a fixed position? Thirdly, will the fixture accept PAR38 bulbs?

The inexpensive track lighting system I use allows the sockets to be moved along the track and angled at will. It is "plug and play" and I can add or remove sockets. The sockets I use have an outer metal casing surrounding a ceramic socket. There is no trim or lampshade to get in the way of the PAR38 bulbs I use.

Dang it!
How about this one, then?

I went to HD to check out some options, and thought I could probably somehow use two of these per each rack on the shelf, but this one according to you, ( I also have no clue about installing electronic stuff) will not work since that round shaped fixture (? don't even know the proper name for the structure) at the center of the whole bar must be placed directly on the power outlet on the wall??

 

[Happypaphy7]

A few LED bulbs I thought were worth using, possibly, potentially???

I'm showing front & back of the product label.

I think the second one is too low in lumen and the last one is probably the best bet? Brightest (highest lumen) and 5000 K.

Please advise me if any of these bulbs are any good for growing orchids. Mainly paphs.

Also, would it be more effective to install long tube like bulbs than to have a few of these individual lights?

Again, educate me on this K because this person at my society always tell people that for orchids, the light bulbs must have 5000 K or higher.
and here I read that it does not really matter.

Plus, since the tack light system won't work for the shelf, if I were to use a few of these individual light bulbs, where would I find matching sockets for them??

At HD, I could only find one and that was not suitable. It was this hanging socket for decorating kitchen or something, with a very very long wire attached to it. I mean you can fold them around to adjust the length, but for shelf, I think it would still take up a lot of space and look very ugly. lol

Are there any shorter ones? Ok, maybe I'll have to check out some smaller hardware stores to see if they have something different.





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