The Russian tank purposely crushed Ukrainian civilian car
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I saw that film footage on the news and was outraged. Putin has now placed himself
squarely in the same category as Hitler in my estimation.
squarely in the same category as Hitler in my estimation.
Amazingly further footage showed that the car driver survived!
Its just appalling. I never thought that we would see war in Europe again.
What the Ukrainian people must be going through now is unimaginable.
Its just appalling. I never thought that we would see war in Europe again.
What the Ukrainian people must be going through now is unimaginable.
eds
Well-Known Member
A 'like' seems the wrong term but I agree completely with what you said.
Hopefully this might be a turning point in the blind eye the UK has turned for too long to dirty money from various in our country, but I won't hold my breath as many of them have been funding the ruling party!
Hopefully this might be a turning point in the blind eye the UK has turned for too long to dirty money from various in our country, but I won't hold my breath as many of them have been funding the ruling party!
England is not the only country into that dirty money by a long shot. I hope the
sanctions and protests inside Russia make a significant difference.
sanctions and protests inside Russia make a significant difference.
troy
Well-Known Member
I'm letting ukranian refugees live in my house to get established......we sit back and watch them burn on fire and do nothing.....I think it is the U.S. fault......putin wanted ukraine for it's minerals and land mass.....and waited for an opportunity....with our weak president he found his chance.......china will also start in with the land they want.....russia is a self sufficient nation.....putting sanctions on them will do more damage to the sanctioneers
No Troy, we do a lot.......but all without risking a new world war. Putin is a wayward/incomputable person.
No, Putin has enough land mass and minerals.....but on the one hand with the emergence of the Ukraine Russia lost important strategic positions around the Black Sea and on the other hand the oriantation of the Ukraine towards West Europe, to become a member of the European Union and in the end of the NATO is completelely against the interest of a Russia lead by a man like Putin a formerly KGB man.
In my eyes the US president, the EU and other countries react in an approbriate way. Sanctions will hit and week Russia and will cause a lot more problems to Russia than to the sanctioneers.
Thank you Guru for correcting Troy's nonsense. The German people will pay more for
gas and are still behind the sanctions. NATO is unified and correct in holding Putin
responsible for such aggression as is President Biden.
*China ain't got no dog in this hunt and is presently neutral.
gas and are still behind the sanctions. NATO is unified and correct in holding Putin
responsible for such aggression as is President Biden.
*China ain't got no dog in this hunt and is presently neutral.
eds
Well-Known Member
Absolutely. I thought this article from the BBC outlined their dilemma quite well.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-60492134
Switzerland has also come down off its perennial fence to realise it can't sit by and let it's banks and businesses keep supporting this regime which is a great change, along with the change in policy of Germany towards NATO and military funding/support.
This could hopefully unite Europe and NATO like we haven't seen since the wall came down. It'll just be us stuck out on a limb trying to straddle allies over the Channel and Atlantic and being stuck halfway between both!
I think the word you are looking for, Guru, is: incomputinable!
However, I don't think, one can call Putin wayward - as you youself say, he was a former KGB man. He is running a very high risk by the invasion of Ukraine - but don't tell me, that every step, taken so far, hasn't been meticulously calculated and scripted.
Angela's historical analogy with Hitler is quite apt, especially with respect first to the German annexation of Sudentenland and then the occupation of rest Czekoslovakia cf. Crimea and the rest of Ukraine. Not to speak of the Mad Hatter revanchism they seem to share: Hitler's hatred of the Versailles treaty, Putin's frustration over the dissolution of the former USSR - and their imperial dreams of latter day glory spawned by that hate and frustration.
A very good thing, though, is the clear stance the German chancellor, Olaf Scholz, now has taken by leaving their 'apeasement policy' (due to bad conscience towards the Russian people for obvious historical reasons). I think the refusal to approve the 'North Stream 2' gas line, is an important step and message. The impact might for a start be worst our end - Europeans without sufficient energy and maybe freezing a winter or two. It might on the other hand contribute to speeding up the green transition in Europe. The cancellation of 'North Stream 2' would, I think, in the long run be a hard stroke for Russian economic interests, as natural gas is one of their very few important commodities for export.
The political, cultural and financial embargo might, if used with skill, also in other respects put pressure on Putin. That is, if the European countries and the US can succesfully agree on quite hard sanctions as f.ex. the proposal of barring Russian banks from using the SWIFT payment system.
I can barely bear to think of the hardship and losses the Ukrainians might suffer, if they succeed in prolonging and slowing down the conquest of their country. Though, if the final victory of the Russian army, that somehow seem inevitable, becomes a costly affair, both economically and in lifes lost, maybe Putin's words about the Ukrainians being a brotherly people and Ukraine being an artificial state formation, might hit him like a boomerang.
It seems, that no one like Vladimir Putin has done so much over the recent years to further the Ukrainians sense of belonging to a common nation (with the exception of The People's Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk, of course). And if the losses on the Ukrainian side, including civilian losses, rise, the interrelatedness between Russians and Ukrainians might make the situation untenable internally in Russia for Putin and reveal his lies about the reason for the invasion (a liberation and denazification) for exactly what they are!
The information about the widespread protests in many Russian cities against the war, is already a light in darkness. The protesters might be small in numbers, but taking into consideration the violence and hardship the protesters were sure to be met by by Putin's repressive, totalitarian regime, one might assume that these brave people represent, but a much vaster number of Russians sharing their view. Interesting also to notice, the other day, the reservations stated in public by a high ranking official from the Russian foreign office. Maybe, this might hint at not all being in total unison and marching in time, even within the government apparatus!
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China is always weary of others mingling from the outside in a country's internal affairs (i.e. they want no outsiders to engage in the horrible ways f.ex. dissidents and/or Uryghurs are treated by the Chinese government). Thus, it's difficult to picture, that Russia's attack on Ukrainian sovereignity is China's cup of tea (pardon the pun!). But I think, we can rest assured, that they are following the reactions to the Russian aggression from especially the US and to a lesser degree from Europe with great interest (read: Taiwan!).
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I think the word you are looking for, Guru, is: incomputinable!
No Jens, I think incomputable is the right word. Native speakers here will know it the best.
Anyway, I ment incomputable in the sense that nobody really assumed that Putin would do this what he did. Furthermore noboday really knows or can imagine how far he will go ?
I would wholeheartly subscribe the rest of your statement.
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Rudolf, I got you the first time round.....though of course nothing to laugh at, I was just trying to make a black humour joke: incomPUTINable!
Jens, I was too much focussed at I would used the wrong word so I didn't realize your black humor.
This point goes to you......Denmark one point!
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The bbc item is well worth reading. It
I am concerned about friends and family in Denmark. If Putin gets away with doing this in Ukraine, the next in line will be the newer NATO countries, like those on the Baltic. I have seen the large radar array on Bornholm aimed towards the east. I suspect it would be an early target in any conflict. MikeI think the word you are looking for, Guru, is: incomputinable!
However, I don't think, one can call Putin wayward - as you youself say, he was a former KGB man. He is running a very high risk by the invasion of Ukraine - but don't tell me, that every step, taken so far, hasn't been meticulously calculated and scripted.
Angela's historical analogy with Hitler is quite apt, especially with respect first to the German annexation of Sudentenland and then the occupation of rest Czekoslovakia cf. Crimea and the rest of Ukraine. Not to speak of the Mad Hatter revanchism they seem to share: Hitler's hatred of the Versailles treaty, Putin's frustration over the dissolution of the former USSR - and their imperial dreams of latter day glory spawned by that hate and frustration.
A very good thing, though, is the clear stance the German chancellor, Olaf Scholz, now has taken by leaving their 'apeasement policy' (due to bad conscience towards the Russian people for obvious historical reasons). I think the refusal to approve the 'North Stream 2' gas line, is an important step and message. The impact might for a start be worst our end - Europeans without sufficient energy and maybe freezing a winter or two. It might on the other hand contribute to speeding up the green transition in Europe. The cancellation of 'North Stream 2' would, I think, in the long run be a hard stroke for Russian economic interests, as natural gas is one of their very few important commodities for export.
The political, cultural and financial embargo might, if used with skill, also in other respects put pressure on Putin. That is, if the European countries and the US can succesfully agree on quite hard sanctions as f.ex. the proposal of barring Russian banks from using the SWIFT payment system.
I can barely bear to think of the hardship and losses the Ukrainians might suffer, if they succeed in prolonging and slowing down the conquest of their country. Though, if the final victory of the Russian army, that somehow seem inevitable, becomes a costly affair, both economically and in lifes lost, maybe Putin's words about the Ukrainians being a brotherly people and Ukraine being an artificial state formation, might hit him like a boomerang.
It seems, that no one like Vladimir Putin has done so much over the recent years to further the Ukrainians sense of belonging to a common nation (with the exception of The People's Republics of Donetsk and Lugansk, of course). And if the losses on the Ukrainian side, including civilian losses, rise, the interrelatedness between Russians and Ukrainians might make the situation untenable internally in Russia for Putin and reveal his lies about the reason for the invasion (a liberation and denazification) for exactly what they are!
The information about the widespread protests in many Russian cities against the war, is already a light in darkness. The protesters might be small in numbers, but taking into consideration the violence and hardship the protesters were sure to be met by by Putin's repressive, totalitarian regime, one might assume that these brave people represent, but a much vaster number of Russians sharing their view. Interesting also to notice, the other day, the reservations stated in public by a high ranking official from the Russian foreign office. Maybe, this might hint at not all being in total unison and marching in time, even within the government apparatus!
troy
Well-Known Member
........
....ok I lose...Biden is the best president U.S. ever had.....it's fact....putin would have never invaded if trump was president.....he would have never let them......people forget how very advanced our military is........we could hit every piece of machinery putin owns with pinpoint accuracy.... with pushing a button.....crippling anything he can use.....with a very wide variety of ordinance...anyways.....because I know they lost their country and are getting killed....because we have a weak president.....I feel responsible as a U.S. citizen, I am going to let a displaced family live in my house for very cheap....to reestablish.....I feel so bad...my heart hurts..... there is a huge ukranian community in sac. Ca.
....ok I lose...Biden is the best president U.S. ever had.....it's fact....putin would have never invaded if trump was president.....he would have never let them......people forget how very advanced our military is........we could hit every piece of machinery putin owns with pinpoint accuracy.... with pushing a button.....crippling anything he can use.....with a very wide variety of ordinance...anyways.....because I know they lost their country and are getting killed....because we have a weak president.....I feel responsible as a U.S. citizen, I am going to let a displaced family live in my house for very cheap....to reestablish.....I feel so bad...my heart hurts..... there is a huge ukranian community in sac. Ca.
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Wanting Trump to penetrate you isn't a personality.
Personally I‘d be all for the various governments around the world confiscating the property and cash of all the russian oligarchs they can find and using it to help the Ukrainian refugees.
troy
Well-Known Member
Wanting Trump to penetrate you isn't a personality........how is this relevant to anything beiing discussed?
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Putin is an egotistical, narcissistic, homicidal maniac, as was Hitler and Stalin. this is all about his ego and glory! He dreams of returning Russia to it's glory days and being it's modern Czar!
