Tospovirus?

[SlipperFan]

There's an anti-viral shot for shingles prevention. Would that be possible for plants?

 

[Happypaphy7]

Short answer is no, it's impossible.
Anti-Shingles shot is a vaccine, which only works for thing with immune systems with antibodies, which plants do not have.

However, if there could be a way to somehow inject into plants which would go after virus and destroy them, that might be high risk of also interfering with plants' own cells in negative ways.

I have no idea what the latest update on this, but don't think I've heard anything miraculous coming yet.

Just think about some horrible side effects of antibiotic or chemo therapy against cancer. They don't just go after the "bugs".

 

[gonewild]

However, if there could be a way to somehow inject into plants which would go after virus and destroy them, that might be high risk of also interfering with plants' own cells in negative ways.

Plants have the ability to absorb and translocate chemicals throughout their cellular system (systemic). So it is possible to vaccinate a plant or treat a pathogen after an infection has occurred.

 

[Happypaphy7]

I know that, but you are not understanding.
Reread my last post.
Vaccines only work with living organisms which have an immune system where anti-bodies are made. Plants do not have such system. So no, it is impossible to vaccinate plants. Vaccination and systemic treatment are not the same thing.

 

[gonewild]

I know that, but you are not understanding.
Reread my last post.
Vaccines only work with living organisms which have an immune system where anti-bodies are made. Plants do not have such system. So no, it is impossible to vaccinate plants. Vaccination and systemic treatment are not the same thing.

Actually I do understand or I would not have made a comment.
Plants do not have immune systems in the strict sense but they do have immune responses which can be triggered by introduced substances. If you introduce a substance into a plant and the result is that the plant gains resistance to a disease then in essence it has been vaccinated.

 

[Happypaphy7]

Clearly, you do not understand.

 

[gonewild]

Clearly, you do not understand.

You said "Plants don't have an immune system"....

http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v444/n7117/full/nature05286.html

and

http://nopr.niscair.res.in/bitstream/123456789/23379/1/IJEB 42(3) 244-252.pdf

You said "plants can't be vaccinated".......

http://utahpests.usu.edu/htm/utah-pests-news/spring2011/immunized/

and

http://www.jstor.org/stable/1309008?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents

 

[Happypaphy7]

Lance, maybe I should have been more specific when I said you are not understanding, but there was not a whole lot of information I dealt with, so I didn't feel it really was necessary.
Perhaps, I should have said you are "stretching" the meaning of vaccination.

What you shared here are nothing new to me, and I have no problem with them. But none of them are actually about vaccination.
Plus, I have never said that plants do not have an immune system.
You took that part of out the context. Maybe that's the problem?
I said plants do not have an immune system where antibodies are produced.
Please read the whole thing. This system, an adaptive immune system, is only found in vertebrates (notice one of your sources points this out, too), and vaccination is what takes advantage of such system in dealing with diseases.

I'm sure you are aware, but there are different types of immune system.
Even the fact that plants are covered with layers sort of like animals being covered in skin, is part of innate immune system blocking foreign unwanted and potentially harmful materials from coming inside the tissues.

Look at some of the lines on those sources you provided.
They used quotation marks when they used the words like immunize or vaccinate, because they were using those words not in their original accurate meaning, but to get their points across.
Hopefully it's clear this time around.

 

[gonewild]

Perhaps, I should have said you are "stretching' the meaning of vaccinating.

What's wrong with that?
Most people would consider immunization and vaccination as the same thing.
No more stretching than "weakly weekly"

The point is that it may be possible to immunize plants against a virus because plants do have a type of immune system and viruses can be keep in check by certain introduced substances.

 

[Ozpaph]

It would be cheaper and easier to replace the plant (most times) that 'treat' it hoping for a cure. And that plant would still be an infection source.

 

[gonewild]

It would be cheaper and easier to replace the plant (most times) that 'treat' it hoping for a cure. And that plant would still be an infection source.

Agree completely. However the idea of immunizing would be to prevent an infection from occurring in the first place.

 

[Happypaphy7]

What's wrong with that? Everything! oke:
Look what just happened in the last few posts.
It interferes with efficient exchange of ideas.

Immunization can mean basically the same thing as vaccination in a context where it is clear that it means "to give someone a vaccine to prevent infection by a disease", but immunize can also mean something more general than just being vaccinated.
So it should be clear in the context of what is being discussed, but if you use immunize to mean something more general (just to mean to make immune) than just vaccinate but present it as they are the same, then obviously a problem will occur because they are not.

The "weakly, weekly" is nothing like this.
There is no stretching there. It is just an overly simplified and hence convenient way for many people to remind themselves to not overdo with fertilizing their plants. Nothing more, nothing less.
Ray just came in to twist things around.

 

[Happypaphy7]

It would be cheaper and easier to replace the plant (most times) that 'treat' it hoping for a cure. And that plant would still be an infection source.

When we talk about hobby flower plants, yes, true. Just toss the sick ones and start new.

These ideas and scientific research aim something much bigger though.
Damage to crops by these pathogenic organisms can be pretty severe costing lots of money, or in case of food crops, putting lots of lives in danger.
So tossing sick ones out is not really an option.

Hence, all these spraying of toxic chemicals and such that harms the environment and everything in it.
It would be nice to eventually one day to come up with a way to somehow "program" plants to better fight off diseases on their own.
That unfortunately is still far into the future (if ever!) as we are just beginning to better understand how plants do their things regarding this matter.

 

[naoki]

If you have enough money, you can completely cure orchids with virus (CymMV and ORSV). Basically you use antiviral drug to make a small meristematic cells free of virii, and you use tissue culture (several rounds of sub-sampling). You need quite a few try to get clean samples. But it is not practical unless it is a very valuable plant.

Also it has been shown that SA reduces the viral transmission rate (I forgot the details, but it is scientifically shown). I'm not sure if it works for orchids, though.

Here is a recent review paper:
Alessandra Panettoni, Andrea Luvisi & E. Triolo . 2013. Review. Elimination of viruses in plants: twenty years of progress. SPANISH JOURNAL OF AGRICULTURAL RESEARCH 11(1):173-188. DOI: 10.5424/sjar/2013111-3201

Kai-Wen Chien, Dinesh Chandra Agrawal, Hsin-Sheng Tsay, Chin-An Chang, 2015. Elimination of mixed ‘Odontoglossum ringspot’ and ‘Cymbidium mosaic’ viruses from Phalaenopsis hybrid ‘V3’ through shoot-tip culture and protocorm-like body selection. Crop Protection 67: 1–6 (abstract only)

Pattent for ribavirin

Aspirin vs TMV (abstract only): http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0042682279900199

 

[Ray]

Ray just came in to twist things around.

Yeah. I'm bad about that, wanting things to be factual and precise....

 

[Happypaphy7]

I actually have no problems with being factual and precise, but here you are again, the way you put it sounds like your opinions are factual and precise, but I am here spreading the opposite, which is not true.

Rather tiring since everything was already dealt with in the other thread I thought. That particular phrase of weakly weekly, sure, it is vauge. Everyone knows that!!! Are you dumb or something?
It is just a general guideline or advise, and that is how it's understood, and it's not my invention, either. Yes, it is imprecise, hence general guideline.
But can't really say unfactual because of it being imprecise.

My main issue was one, you being rude, and here again with the tone of your comment. I have no problem with your own "theory" on certain things, and that is not what I meant by "twisting". Adding your own opinion is welcome. The whole intention, context was twisted with a touch of putting others down.

Plus, since you want to be factual and precise the way you see it, when you introduce terms like semi-hydro, it is also imprecise since it was not clear what it really is. Not everyone understands semi-hydro culture setup and maintenance the way you practice it. Also, your claim on "underaeration" being the reason for roots being killed off is not only just a single sided way to view the issue, but not totally factual nor precise.
Again, adding your opinion is welcome. Try to be factual and precise, great!
I am perfectly fine with that, but when you leave remarks dissing others when you have your own flaws as I have just pointed out here briefly, it is not appreciated.

 

[Happypaphy7]

Thanks for the info.
It is great to know this!
I've read in the older orchid magazine that one of those two viruses can be removed in meristematic cells but not the other. This was years ago.

Is this in practice at all, though?
I mean, how expensive is it? I would think that it should still be profitable to put in a bit more investment initially to produce virus free plants? That is, if the day comes when this will work for orchids.

If you have enough money, you can completely cure orchids with virus (CymMV and ORSV). Basically you use antiviral drug to make a small meristematic cells free of virii, and you use tissue culture (several rounds of sub-sampling). You need quite a few try to get clean samples. But it is not practical unless it is a very valuable plant.

Also it has been shown that SA reduces the viral transmission rate (I forgot the details, but it is scientifically shown). I'm not sure if it works for orchids, though.

Here is a recent review paper:
Alessandra Panettoni, Andrea Luvisi & E. Triolo . 2013. Review. Elimination of viruses in plants: twenty years of progress. SPANISH JOURNAL OF AGRICULTURAL RESEARCH 11(1):173-188. DOI: 10.5424/sjar/2013111-3201

Kai-Wen Chien, Dinesh Chandra Agrawal, Hsin-Sheng Tsay, Chin-An Chang, 2015. Elimination of mixed ‘Odontoglossum ringspot’ and ‘Cymbidium mosaic’ viruses from Phalaenopsis hybrid ‘V3’ through shoot-tip culture and protocorm-like body selection. Crop Protection 67: 1–6 (abstract only)

Pattent for ribavirin

Aspirin vs TMV (abstract only): http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0042682279900199