Went to judging today with 7 came home with 3

[JeanLux]

Bravo again !!!! Jean

 

[Happypaphy7]

I don't understand your comment. Symmetry is an important criteria in orchid judging. This flaw is pretty obvious even to a non-orchid judge. If you ignore flaws and award everything then you devalue the whole award system. Only the very best should receive an award. Maybe next time it will have better symmetry and it can be awarded.

Not the symmetry, but how the flower sits is the way I understood "sweeping to the right". It's nodding to the side.

David, I don't mean any harm but beauty, including what's desirable and good, is in the eye of the beholder and individual taste differs widely.

Awards mean a lot to those who participate in the judging and awards, and place high value in them.
To others like me, they mean little to nothing.

 

[emydura]

Not the symmetry, but how the flower sits is the way I understood "sweeping to the right". It's nodding to the side.

David, I don't mean any harm but beauty, including what's desirable and good, is in the eye of the beholder and individual taste differs widely.

Awards mean a lot to those who participate in the judging and awards, and place high value in them.
To others like me, they mean little to nothing.

But then why make a comment criticising the judges and the judging process. Orchid judges are looking at the flowers from a completely different perspective to you.

You make the mistake of thinking that just because the judges didn't award the plant, they didn't like it. It is not about what they like. It is whether the judges think the orchid is an exceptional (way above average) form of the species or hybrid.

 

[Happypaphy7]

David, I have more than basic understanding of how orchid judging works. I am just not interested in that world. Even then, I can express my opionion, right?

It is sort of about what they like or not, too. In your own words, you sort of said it, too, where you said "It is not about what they like. It is whether the judges think the orchid is..." which I find rather contradicting.
How do they conclude (or think as you put it) that an orchid is exceptional?
There are more than numerically measurable, hence objectional aspects and that is where their personal tastes and such come into play, is it not??

It is alright.
I don't want to start a whole war on this subject as it had been here before and some people tend to be quite overly sensitive as you seem to be here.

Hence, I started out by saying I don't mean any harm and then went on to express my opinion.

 

[SlipperKing]

That is true David. At least one judge liked it enough to nominate the plant for further consideration.

Sent from my SM-G900T using Tapatalk

 

[SlipperKing]

Here is the summary score card for the micranthum v. eburneum. I also included the three micranthums the support team pulled for the judges to read over and to use as a bases for comparison.






Hopefully it's large enough to read. No were did I see on the 3 awarded plants did it mention eburneum.

Added note: in pencil at the top of the micranthums they looked up they write the total number awarded. In this case 178 plants for AOS. I just notice my phone# at the bottom of the page! I should of blocked that out. I don't need you guys bugging me to buy the thing! LOL

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[Happypaphy7]

Regarding the name, does the judging system not recognize the difference or did they forget??

By the way, I thought Huntington's micranthum was not eburneum?
I have no idea about Glen's plant.

 

[SlipperKing]

Regarding the name, does the judging system not recognize the difference or did they forget??

By the way, I thought Huntington's micranthum was not eburneum?
I have no idea about Glen's plant.

They do recognize variation and our judges do pull up the pictures of the plants they have the written description of. I think all three of these are the colored form.
I did not have a chance to set in with the team that awarded the eburneum but i could here talk and know it was going to be point scored. I was more interested in the ciliolare at the time and was with that team. The team that judged the delenatii did mention, as a general rule albas do run smaller then their counterpart.
I set with the lawrenceanum as well. The team was chomping at the bit to point score that plant but their biggest concern was the synsepal being larger then normal where by sticking out past the pouch if photographed I had to bite my tongue! You can't say anything unless you are directly ask a question. They were so concerned what other judging centers would think if they awarded a plant that was imperfect in anyway. I wanted so badly to pull out my cell phone and show them the pic I had taken, minimizing the synsepal effect. No can do. What they really need to do is take a pic with their own cell phones and they would see for themselves.

 

[Tom-DE]

I like the del. album. Mine is blooming also and it has great white rose fragrance, how is yours?

 

[Happypaphy7]

They do recognize variation and our judges do pull up the pictures of the plants they have the written description of. I think all three of these are the colored form.
I did not have a chance to set in with the team that awarded the eburneum but i could here talk and know it was going to be point scored. I was more interested in the ciliolare at the time and was with that team. The team that judged the delenatii did mention, as a general rule albas do run smaller then their counterpart.
I set with the lawrenceanum as well. The team was chomping at the bit to point score that plant but their biggest concern was the synsepal being larger then normal where by sticking out past the pouch if photographed I had to bite my tongue! You can't say anything unless you directly ask a question. They were so concerned what other judging centers would think if they awarded a plant that was imperfect in anyway. I wanted so badly to pull out my cell phone and show them the pic I had taken, minimizing the synsepal effect. No can do. What they really need to do is take a pic with their own cell phones and they would see for themselves.

Well, a lot of dramas are involved.

 

[SlipperKing]

I like the del. album. Mine is blooming also and it has great white rose fragrance, how is yours?

It does have a weak scent and your description fits well. It's nothing like the vinicolor clone, same scent but very powerful.

Well, a lot of dramas are involved.

No Sh*t!

 

[Stone]

David, I have more than basic understanding of how orchid judging works. I am just not interested in that world. Even then, I can express my opionion, right?

It is sort of about what they like or not, too. In your own words, you sort of said it, too, where you said "It is not about what they like. It is whether the judges think the orchid is..." which I find rather contradicting.
How do they conclude (or think as you put it) that an orchid is exceptional?
There are more than numerically measurable, hence objectional aspects and that is where their personal tastes and such come into play, is it not??

It is alright.
I don't want to start a whole war on this subject as it had been here before and some people tend to be quite overly sensitive as you seem to be here.

Hence, I started out by saying I don't mean any harm and then went on to express my opinion.

HP,
I agree with you 100%. Watching them scurry about with their little measuring sticks and their little colour cards....Please!
IMO, The whole orchid judging game is a huge joke. Having observed it from a distance for many years and looked closely at the various results. There are more questions than answers. It's obviously very subjective. Not withstanding the parameters they supposedly need to stick to, the variations among the results for similar species judged in different places can be massive. Some examples good, some highly questionable. Yet we see the same award given. Local orchid politics is so obviously coming into play. It should not but it does. No question about it. Competition between one club or organization and another leading to distorted views.
Then we have new species given awards simply because they are new species or because a particular group of judges have never had the opportunity to award this or that plant so they do whether it deserves it or not. I have seen this too many times. I could post examples but that would be unfair to the owners of the plants. The number of times I have seen highly awarded species which to any reasonable observer are just average examples are numerous. How can any value be placed on the decisions being made? The truth is there cannot be. There should not be.
Orchid judging needs to be exposed for what it is. A side show.
I have been asked on several occasions to have my plants judged. I have done so a couple of times but no more. I want nothing to do with the whole process. The only award I see merit in is cultural certificates which recognize the true ability on of the grower.
Another side of the judging process is that it has placed pressure on those desiring to win awards to alter traits of the original species so much that they lose true botanical validity. There are more negative side to the process as well. Jealousy, resentment, exclusiveness.
A formal recognition of plant quality? ....As if a plant could give a **** what it looks like. The award is not for the plant, it's for the owner who happens to be lucky enough to acquire a nice flower. Good luck to him but really!!!... Big f***g deal. Why does that need to be formally recognized?

Orchid judging....F**k Off.

 

[eaborne]

Congratulations Rick!

 

[Stone]

If they thought the eburneum was small why did they award it.

This is exactly (one of my) point. Meaningless.
90% of these should be awarded too.......https://www.google.com.au/search?q=...SAhXJq5QKHcwuDzwQsAQIGA&biw=1920&bih=910#spf=
Are to hell with it, let's just award everything!:rollhappy:
I tell you, it would be funny if it wasn't so blatantly ridiculous and worse, everyone just plods along thinking it's all just hunky dory.

 

[Don I]

I'm just some dork that grows orchids and this year for the very first time I received 2 awards. The first time I was all excited. The second maybe a little less so but I still enjoyed it. Our society goes to 5 shows. They award a number of plants at every show. I think it is like a dog show or a horse show awards or championships are primarily for the breeders and some self promotion. I enjoy getting ribbons too. It's like getting a gold star on your homework. I think it's just a bit of harmless fun.
Don

 

[Don I]

Sorry I forgot. Congratulations, 3 out of 7 is not too shabby.
Don.

 

[Tom-DE]

It does have a weak scent and your description fits well. It's nothing like the vinicolor clone, same scent but very powerful.

My normal color(pink) del. has no fragrance that I can detect but my white one has strong fragrance...I guess it all depends on each individual plant.

 

[SlipperKing]

Wow Mike somebody did you wrong in the past! When I started getting serious about orchids in the late 80's early 90's I too had my ego bruised when told my plant wasn't good enough. I got over it and kept taking plants back. Each time I got a better understanding of the process. I never played politics, I never kiss anyone's A$$, I just kept plugging along. These days its no big deal if plant is awarded or not. I of course get a kick out of it if one does get an award. For me that's one of joys of this hobby. Like Don I said harmless fun if you look at in the correct light.
I like to know how my plants stand against the pack and at least, my judging community is not stupid. They know when they're looking at an inferior plant previously awarded else were. Another joy I get out of slippers is the opportunity to educate the judging community about our slippers. Many times they have never seen or rarely so, some of the species I bring in. I often hear misconceptions of why a slipper is the way it is. I always politely correct any misunderstandings but only after judging is over of course. I think over the years I have improved upon their understanding as well as my own.

 

[Stone]

Wow Mike somebody did you wrong in the past! When I started getting serious about orchids in the late 80's early 90's I too had my ego bruised when told my plant wasn't good enough.

No one every did me wrong Rick. I was encouraged twice to submit a plant for judging and they were both awarded AMs. I'm going from what I observe with other peoples plants.

Like Don I said harmless fun if you look at in the correct light.

I do look at it in the correct light. That's what I mean, Most people are blinded to what's really happening in the big rush to get their plants awarded. And believe me some people take the whole thing really seriously. I can't go into too many details on line

I like to know how my plants stand against the pack

Why? If you like them, enjoy them, who cares what others think? You should not need the approval of others to feel good about your plants if you are happy with them. More so because, as I said, it is very subjective anyway.

and at least, my judging community is not stupid. They know when they're looking at an inferior plant previously awarded else were

That is saying that your judges know what they are doing but other's potentially don't.


Look at these... ( I would be surprized if any of these pants are still alive)

esquirolei HCC

esquirolei HCC

micranthum AM

micranthum AM

tonsum HCC

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concolor HCC

haynaldianum HCC

This very small sample shows that awards don't necessarily account for much. Some are good, Many are average and some are downright bad. All getting the same awards.
On the back of this, growers will be happy to buy seedlings at inflated prices thinking the parents are above average and expecting good results.
If I see and AM or a HCC after a parents name I know it means nothing unless I actually see the parents. So forget about the awards and just show me the parents...

 

[li'l frog]

Perhaps judging in Australia is different than judging in the US.