Will daily top-misting kill Phragmipedium besseae?

[Another_World_Terraria]

I created a cloud forest grow tent with cool temps so I can grow INT-COOL growers. It has a humidifier, misting system, frequent air movement from fans, frequent ventilation, and cool air supply intermittently.

I got Phragmipedium besseae and have it potted on the bottom of the tent. The primary source of water for this plant will probably be a shallow tray for the pot to sit in, and/or me manually watering it directly at the substrate.

The problem is with the misting system: It turns on once per day for about 20 seconds. The water will land on the Phrag and may collect in the crevices of the growth where the leaves meet. The air flow is good and it dries out within a few hours, however I can't guarantee the drying out / air flow will always reach the inner crevices so there could be some persistent water between the overlapping leaves and growth tips. I really don't know for sure if it will be like that, but am considering it could happen. I know it likes to grow wet, but I also know in nature it probably gets most water at the roots from seepages. I'm not sure how often that species gets top watered by rain in its natural habitat.

I'm worried with frequent water from the misting system in the growing tips between the leaves, it could rot. But I also know there are some cloud forest and wet growing orchids which wouldn't care in the least about something like that.

On a side note, the package this orchid came in got lost and then delayed for over two weeks, so the leaves have some black dying patches in various areas, but the overall plant seems OK.

TLDR: I will have Phrag besseae in good conditions other than the daily top misting which I'm afraid could settle inside the leaves and cause rot. Do you think this species would be resistant to rot from daily top watering?

Thanks for any help

 

[kman]

I water mine overhead at least daily, and they never get below 70% RH, generally higher and often above 90%. A fogger mists them regularly. But, by night the foliage is dry and the air circulation is excellent. Never any rot issues.

 

[big923cattleya]

Misting alone is rarely enough water for just about any orchid. I am trying to imagine what benefit, if any, will come from a 20 second spritz!
Just how cool is cool?
What are your humidity levels as indicated by a gauge?
Besseae likes a good deal of constant humidity between 70-90%. I could never accomplish that in my growing area with a 20 second mist.
I use trays to collect water and boost humidity. My level averages around 75-80%.

 

[gonewild]

As far as natural habitat besseae habitat is wet almost if not every night. And every night has very strong air currents.
Wet is not an issue, I have always watered my phrags overhead. Sometimes the crowns hold some water and crown rot never has been a problem because of it. HOWEVER, constant high humidity without strong air movement easily leads to both bacterial and fungal infections.
Solution in your setup would to put a direct air current on your besseae.
When the lights are off try to lower the humidity.

 

[Another_World_Terraria]

I water mine overhead at least daily, and they never get below 70% RH, generally higher and often above 90%. A fogger mists them regularly. But, by night the foliage is dry and the air circulation is excellent. Never any rot issues.

This is great to hear, thank you for the info!

 

[Another_World_Terraria]

Misting alone is rarely enough water for just about any orchid. I am trying to imagine what benefit, if any, will come from a 20 second spritz!
Just how cool is cool?
What are your humidity levels as indicated by a gauge?
Besseae likes a good deal of constant humidity between 70-90%. I could never accomplish that in my growing area with a 20 second mist.
I use trays to collect water and boost humidity. My level averages around 75-80%.

I am going to increase the misting time a bit longer, gradually, until I feel that the smaller mounted plants and potted plants are getting enough water at least to prevent dehydration. I will still probably need to manually water some of them. The misting system, as you say, really isn't ideal as a primary water source (which is rather disappointing)

The misters are only for the mounted plants, smaller potted plants, and mosses and such. The Phrag will be watered via a shallow tray and/or me actually watering it directly.

Humidity is 70-90%

Day temps below 80F with an average of 75F.
Night temps below 60F with an average of 57F

 

[Another_World_Terraria]

As far as natural habitat besseae habitat is wet almost if not every night. And every night has very strong air currents.
Wet is not an issue, I have always watered my phrags overhead. Sometimes the crowns hold some water and crown rot never has been a problem because of it. HOWEVER, constant high humidity without strong air movement easily leads to both bacterial and fungal infections.
Solution in your setup would to put a direct air current on your besseae.
When the lights are off try to lower the humidity.

It's good to hear that top watering shouldn't be an issue.
The setup has good air movement and ventilation.
An oscillating fan turns on for one minute every 15 minutes - it's not directly aiming at this Phrag but the air movement will still reach it a bit
There is also a ventilation and cooling system which turns on every 20-30 minutes, which includes a 2nd oscillating fan which will likely get more air movement on this plant as it is pointing more in that direction, as well as a duct fan strongly exhausting air out the bottom (and this plant is on the bottom so should get a decent current there). The actual cooling portion of the system only turns on if the temp doesn't hit the target range within 3 minutes of the exhaust coming on.
The result of all of this is that there should be plenty of air movement throughout the day and night
Lowering humidity at night will be more complicated but I could do it - I would just need to purchase a new digital controller with more ports than the one I have currently

 

[treefrog]

Here check this account of besseae in the wild.
https://www.slippertalk.com/threads...gmipedium-besseae-population-from-peru.55197/
I don't think a daily misting will be detrimental .
Cheers,
Math

 

[southernbelle]

My besseae do great as long as day temps never go above 76-78. My nights never go below 60 and most of the year 65. Humidity is constant 50-55%. Besseae are individual saucers of water but other phrags and phals (green strap-leafed) are not.

 

[Another_World_Terraria]

Here check this account of besseae in the wild.
https://www.slippertalk.com/threads...gmipedium-besseae-population-from-peru.55197/
I don't think a daily misting will be detrimental .
Cheers,
Math

THIS IS AMAZING!

Thank you so much for sharing that.

The photos and especially the videos were absolutely magical and dreamy

The story is very sad and devastating though

 

[gonewild]

Notice the amount of air movement in the video?

 

[Another_World_Terraria]

Notice the amount of air movement in the video?

Yes, that's intense. I wonder if that was just a breezy day, or if that location is always that windy. I can understand very good air flow in general for these types of habitats, but I can't imagine that every single population of P. besseae is under that extreme of conditions, or at least not on a constant basis. There must be some locations which are slightly more sheltered, or not next to a raging waterfall.

I always try to provide good air movement for any species which need it, but this gets me re-thinking things a little; that is, considering increasing the air movement frequency. Currently I have frequent, intermittent air flow. However, it is possible to have a constant low-level air movement, with intermittent periods of higher flow. I may consider that option, however I'm afraid it might dry out some plants too quickly.

Anyway, this is really interesting and helpful

 

[gonewild]

In that situation near the waterfall pretty much it will be windy all the time. Basically in the tropical Andes in the regions where the majority of orchids grow it's very windy every night. Forget trying to have a flower sit still for a picture except during the early morning hours.
If you find a habitat that is protected from the wind then there probably is not enough sunlight for phrags to thrive there.
For growing orchids in a closed environment the antidote to prevent rot during cool/wet humid nights is air strong movement. I guess crown rot doesn't like wind.

 

[kman]

My rule of thumb for air movement is this:

Are the leaves moving?

If so then it is adequate. Just enough to see, not to whip about. Has always worked well for me. I find that having the fans directed above the foliage seems best.

 

[Another_World_Terraria]

My rule of thumb for air movement is this:

Are the leaves moving?

If so then it is adequate. Just enough to see, not to whip about. Has always worked well for me. I find that having the fans directed above the foliage seems best.

Is this constant, 24 hours a day?

 

[kman]

Is this constant, 24 hours a day?

Yes.

 

[orchidlife]

Yes.

Hmm, I will now rethink my air movement regime! My fans run with my lights but on seperate timers and both shut off at different times of the day for an hr or so. Lights off to simulate cloud cover twice a day(in my mind at least) and fans kind of the same reasoning, the wind doesnt blow constant for 12-14 hrs!??

 

[gonewild]

Probably more important to have the fans on when lights are off.
If you want to mimic the natural environment keep in mind that there is air movement constantly in the habitats. Maybe not hard wind but always airflow.That is not true in a closed artificial environment when your fans go off.
Here is what wind on my phrags look like, especially when the leaves are wet.

 

[gonewild]

View attachment VID_20241231_112952138.mp4