Alert: Orchid Polize

[Lanmark]

Thanks Candace. Yeah, I offered cash up front, promises of no strings attached and all sales final -- just ship me the plant please, LOL, but I can understand why someone overseas would be hesitant to do it. Maybe they thought I was trying to scam them. I think the way to go is indeed through a commercial grower here in USA who imports, then pay them up front to aquire the plant for me. I did approach a grower/seller once here in USA to have them ship one of their plants to Europe as a gift to a friend of mine but they refused to do it. Same situation: "We're not going to bother with this for just one plant." It didn't matter that they already had all their CITES and phytosanitary paperwork and certifications for their plants completed and in order and that they routinely shipped overseas nor that I offered to pay cash in full up front for the $75 plant and all the shipping, handling, and paperwork costs plus a few hundred more for their trouble. They were just plain stubborn and I told them so. Someone else ended up hand-carrying an identical plant for me on a flight across the Atlantic, CITES and Phytosanitary paperwork in hand. I paid them to do it and everything turned out fine in the end. My friend is delighted with the plant. It's funny, though, how some people get stubborn ideas stuck in their heads and won't budge an inch (like me, HAHA). oke: :rollhappy:

 

[gonewild]

Being lucky to get a package through from China?

Forget CITES violations problems with illegally importing plants. Just discussing about how to avoid being caught is a Federal crime.... Conspiracy can add two years to a sentence.

IP addresses may need a warrant to be found but every post on a forum is public and can be used to prosecute, or to force a plea deal. An investigator could easily learn a posters true identity by hacking the forum. True they may not be able to use the IP id as evidence but once they new where to look to see what was posted all of that material could not be denied by the poster. To do so would be another crime... lie to a Federal Officer?

Just because you get away with receiving small packages in the mail does not mean that the USDA does not know about it. They may watch for years to compile a case, then all of a sudden they arrest everyone.

 

[gonewild]

Thanks Candace. Yeah, I offered cash up front, promises of no strings attached and all sales final -- just ship me the plant please, LOL, but I can understand why someone overseas would be hesitant to do it. Maybe they thought I was trying to scam them. I think the way to go is indeed through a commercial grower here in USA who imports, then pay them up front to aquire the plant for me. I did approach a grower/seller once here in USA to have them ship one of their plants to Europe as a gift to a friend of mine but they refused to do it.

Even though you may have offered to pay all the expenses for the shipper it still may not have been enough for the amount of effort it takes to get the documentation. Some countries have laws that require all plants to be commercially exported rather than just be mailed. In Peru this would cost at least $1000 by the time all the documentation and handling is done. This amount is for a "shipment", no matter whether it is one box or a sea container full.
Then on the USA side there are more import fees for commercial shipments and USA customs is slow and plants die and you pay for all surprise random inspections. remember USDA and Customs are now run by Homeland Security.

The exporter gets blamed for everything so you see it just is not worth the trouble even if you were willing to pay the expenses.

If you truely are willing to pay all of the costs involved you are a very rare buyer. Next time if you truly want to get the plants offer the seller a months wages in advance as a bonus. Or better yet go and get the plants in person, it would likely be cheaper.

 

[NYEric]

Cheaper, but not cheap.

 

[KyushuCalanthe]

Just because you get away with receiving small packages in the mail does not mean that the USDA does not know about it. They may watch for years to compile a case, then all of a sudden they arrest everyone.

That has happened more than once to be sure.

 

[Lanmark]

Even though you may have offered to pay all the expenses for the shipper it still may not have been enough for the amount of effort it takes to get the documentation. Some countries have laws that require all plants to be commercially exported rather than just be mailed. In Peru this would cost at least $1000 by the time all the documentation and handling is done. This amount is for a "shipment", no matter whether it is one box or a sea container full.
Then on the USA side there are more import fees for commercial shipments and USA customs is slow and plants die and you pay for all surprise random inspections. remember USDA and Customs are now run by Homeland Security.

The exporter gets blamed for everything so you see it just is not worth the trouble even if you were willing to pay the expenses.

If you truely are willing to pay all of the costs involved you are a very rare buyer. Next time if you truly want to get the plants offer the seller a months wages in advance as a bonus. Or better yet go and get the plants in person, it would likely be cheaper.

Yep, I'm the rare buyer. If I want something badly enough and I say I'll pay all the expenses, then I pay all the expenses. Period. It doesn't make me a saint. It's just how I do business. I also don't promise to pay more than I can afford. Give me a figure and I will say yes or no. A month's wages may not be unreasonable if I want the plant badly enough. Going and getting it myself is also a viable option. I've actually been considering making a trip to Australia. Both of my parents are quite ill right now. Looking after them -- even with the help of all the visiting nurses, physical therapists and home health care workers -- while simultaneously managing two homes has been taking up most of my time and energy for the past few months. That is what is holding me back.

I guess I don't understand, however, what you are referring to when you say, "The exporter gets blamed for everything so you see it just is not worth the trouble even if you were willing to pay the expenses."

The only plants I have ever wanted to import have been rare named varieties of Neofinetia falcata, one species of Sarcochilus and a couple of Sarcochilus hybrids. I want to import plants via legal means only. No funny business. I've had great success in getting the Neofinetias from Japan. Glenn has brought some back for me. Some I've purchased from Jason, and some came from Satomi. I've imported some directly. Some were far more expensive than others. My wish list never seems to get any smaller LOL. There are $50 plants on my wish list and there are $5000 plants on my wish list. There might even be one with a five figure price tag. :rollhappy: It might stay there a while too. Then again...

Neos are tough almost like little cactuses. They can survive bareroot without water and light for an amazingly long time. Sarcochilus plants, I think, are fairly tough too, although probably not nearly as tough as the Neos. Last but not least, it is not unreasonable to expect that from time to time a plant will perish in the process of exportation/importation. I would take all possible precautions with the Sarcochilus plants, including purchasing a minimum of two plants of each variety on the list, and after that, all I can do is hope for the best. It's a risk I would take. I don't expect miracles and I accept the risk. If the seller told me there was amost no chance the plants would arrive alive, then I would probably not go ahead with the purchase. When the seller doesn't want to do it but doesn't explain why or says it isn't worth the bother is when I start to feel frustrated. Still, it's their choice and I can respect that, but then I'm left wondering what other options I may have.

I'm not requesting anything illegal. I am offering to pay all expenses. I am offering to make it worthwhile for the seller. I accept all risks of loss. So what are the everythings you are talking about for which the exporter would get blamed? I don't get it. This is the attitude I don't understand. I've faced it more than once, and honestly, I'm not a jerk. Sometimes I just know what I want, and I'm happy to pay for it.

 

[NYEric]

Haha, some people just don't want to go thru the hassle of getting the paperwork.

 

[Lanmark]

Haha, some people just don't want to go thru the hassle of getting the paperwork.

:rollhappy: LOL Maybe so!

 

[gonewild]

I guess I don't understand, however, what you are referring to when you say, "The exporter gets blamed for everything so you see it just is not worth the trouble even if you were willing to pay the expenses."

OK I will try to explain.

It does not matter whether it is an export shipment or domestic sale for this example.
Ask any plant shipper what happens when someone receives a dead plant.
Almost always the buyer will expect the seller to refund the money, All the money including shipping. Does not matter if the buyer ordered the plant in the dead of winter or that the shipping company mishandled the shipment. The reality is even when only an occasional person complains it is a "cost" to the seller. When a buyer stops payment on a credit card payment it costs the seller a $35 fee on top of the lost goods and shipping. This is only an example of why many sellers will not want to take the time to consider a deal that may not be easy.

Now beyond the money loss the angry buyer posts on the internet that the seller did something wrong or ships bad plants and the seller gets a bad reputation almost immediately.

Does this make sense as to why the seller gets blamed? And why most sellers make some policies and refuse to change?

I want to import plants via legal means only. No funny business.

Have you ever considered that this is not a possible way to export some plants? Maybe the export of the plants you want would require some "funny business"?

It's a risk I would take. I don't expect miracles and I accept the risk. If the seller told me there was amost no chance the plants would arrive alive, then I would probably not go ahead with the purchase. When the seller doesn't want to do it but doesn't explain why or says it isn't worth the bother is when I start to feel frustrated. Still, it's their choice and I can respect that, but then I'm left wondering what other options I may have.

So how does the seller know for sure you will actually accept the risk or blame for shipment failure? How does he know you will not tell all your friends on the internet that it was his fault? Unless you are an established client why should he take the risk for a small sale that probably will be your last purchase from him?

I'm not requesting anything illegal. I am offering to pay all expenses. I am offering to make it worthwhile for the seller. I accept all risks of loss.

But see you are that rare person who is willing to pay all the costs. Probably if he told you he was going to add $200 to you invoice to cover the cost of his time to write you emails you would pay it. But most people would not. The fact is it takes time from his work day just to tell you "NO". Heck it probably cost me $20 in lost work time just to write this explanation.
Yes the seller lost making money from your purchase but having his policy of "just say no" he did not loose money corresponding with 50 people who would decide after 10 emails to not order.

So what are the everythings you are talking about for which the exporter would get blamed? I don't get it. This is the attitude I don't understand. I've faced it more than once, and honestly, I'm not a jerk.

Are you still confused?
I face your problem all the time trying to get suppliers to do something special for me. I am frustrated but not confused about it.
Try this approach, decide what you would be willing to pay for the plants you want from Australia, the total including all the expenses you are willing to cover. Contact the possible exporters and offer them that amount of money. If they say no contact a orchid vendor here and offer them that much money for the plants. If no one will get you the plants then you are not willing to pay what the plants are worth in reality.

Sometimes I just know what I want, and I'm happy to pay for it.

I wish I lived in Australia because I would be sending you the plants and I would already have a nice pocket full of money. :clap:

 

[Lanmark]

Are you still confused?

I guess the bottom line is that the sellor/vendor/exporter/importer doesn't know me.

The only plants I want are documented, legally propagated, not endangered, not protected, definitely exportable/importable with obtainable CITES and phytosanitary certifications, and I've offered to pay far more than what the plants are worth and cover all costs/expenses and compensate the vendor more than fairly for their time and effort. I figure if I am going to ask a big favor, it's only fair to give one in return.

I'm not confused, just frustrated.

I grew up in a time when business owners wanted customers' business and went out of their way to get it. I grew up in a time when store owners told their employees that "the customer is always right" but it was also a time when a person said "thank you" with sincerity when someone had done them a favor. It was a time when customers were loyal to the businesses that had given them good service. Times have changed. I haven't.

When I sell on eBay, for example, I contact the customer immediately at auction's end and thank them for their winning bid. Once payment has been received I ship either the same day or the very next day that the shipping service is open for business unless the customer requests otherwise. I keep the customer informed throughout the process. I email them immediately when their package has been shipped and provide them with a tracking nunmber. I track their package and email them when their package is out for delivery, and I contact them once it has been delivered to make sure they are happy with their purchase. Most of the time, however, when I buy on eBay I hear nothing from the seller and have no idea when my purchase might arrive until it actually arrives. I'm feel lucky if an email is answered. oke:

 

[gonewild]

I guess the bottom line is that the sellor/vendor/exporter/importer doesn't know me.

yes

I'm not confused, just frustrated.

Good, as long as you understand why you are frustrated you are in good shape.

I grew up in a time when business owners wanted customers' business and went out of their way to get it. I grew up in a time when store owners told their employees that "the customer is always right" but it was also a time when a person said "thank you" with sincerity when someone had done them a favor. It was a time when customers were loyal to the businesses that had given them good service. Times have changed. I haven't.

We must share the same birthday. I still live by those rules also. But times have not changed people have. Time has remained the same as always, a vicious predator.

When I sell on eBay, for example, I contact the customer immediately at auction's end and thank them for their winning bid. Once payment has been received I ship either the same day or the very next day that the shipping service is open for business unless the customer requests otherwise. I keep the customer informed throughout the process. I email them immediately when their package has been shipped and provide them with a tracking nunmber. I track their package and email them when their package is out for delivery, and I contact them once it has been delivered to make sure they are happy with their purchase.

We do the same with our online business but I must admit when I analyze the cost of the extra service I wonder if the extra service is worth it from a $ perspective.

Most of the time, however, when I buy on eBay I hear nothing from the seller and have no idea when my purchase might arrive until it actually arrives. I'm feel lucky if an email is answered. oke:

Yes and those sellers usually have a million positive sales feedback.

 

[Lanmark]

Time has remained the same as always, a vicious predator.

You just gotta learn to run fast. :sob: