Bud Watch

[gego]

Simple happiness in life, when I saw the first plant to bloom from the Paph. Julius (lowii 'Big Hug' x roth 'KingKong') flask from Sam. Planted them separately from compot last 1/21/18. I posted tgem that time as they were really fast growers. I few months after, all of them were showing chlorosis just about any part of the plant. I ended up chasing which nutrient/s were deficient and changing from outdoor to indoor just made them worst. Talked to Sam about it and he told me that he heard from others having the same issues. The usual Epsom foliar supplement was recommended. I ended up supplementing just about every nutrients that could be the cause of chlorosis. Four years of experimentation and I have learned a lot. So after all those five years of scratching my head, I finally got one to flower.

 

[Happypaphy7]

So which one of the stuff that you threw on them made the difference in the end? or did they mostly never recover and this one is among the few survivors?
Not only is it in bud, it also has a big new growth next to it it looks? That is quite fast!!

 

[gego]

Yeah this breeding turns out to grow really fast. The deficiency was so hard to read, but looked like the classic issue with one nutrient deficient, showing a deficient of another. Some got really stunted but some keep growing. My normal 100 ppm N was not enough using 311 ratio. And was very obvious during winter when they all go to my basement with LED's. I was only using mid intensity to start with and the reaction was pretty fast. In two weeks time, I see chlorosis coming out. So the light was one factor but then at first I did not know why. The rest of my plants are ok. But they were growing and when they were outside they get a drench of tap water frequently when not fertilizing. Our tap here says 80 to 100 ppm calcium bicarbonate, I thought that should be enough.
I think that assumption was wrong, in my experiment it turned out to be not enough or should I say, the plant was not absorbing enough calcium to support the fast growth. Not only is the form of calcium that is important, the pH of the solution is a big factor too. And this particular plant/breed wants it low down to 5 pH. With this plant/breed, I almost got to see what nutrient deficiencies and toxicities will do to a plant.
I don't think I'm done. There are still a lot to consider. The light source is one. Hopefully they all get to stay in one growing space year round. My take is that they don't like changes in light, nutrients and even potting media. So I'm slowly moving into using inorganic media. This Orchiata these days are not as good as before, just my opinion.
Thanks for asking.

 

[gego]

After four days. The stem is over 1/4" diameter. At least 3 buds.

 

[Happypaphy7]

What I love about multis is their speed.

 

[gego]

What I love about multis is their speed.

I'm leaving in 12 days, I won't see this open

 

[Happypaphy7]

So the chlorosis went away once you changed supplied calcium?
I don't think calcium deficiency shows up as chlorosis. Calcium deficiency causes failure of proper cell wall formation as thus cells die and this shows up as necrotic spots/areas usually on newly developing leaves.
Chlorosis is usually associated with elements like sulfur, manganese, zinc and magnesium.
Was it patchy or overall lightening of the green across the leaves?
And you mentioned that it happened once the plant was moved to LED and other plants were fine? This makes me think it may not have a lot to do with fertilizer. I had the same issue when I moved my plants from natural light to T8 a few years ago.
A few plants look light stressed while others were fine. Brachys and multis in my case were not affected at all. Some parvis were affected but most were not. Nearly all the maudiae type were affected. I moved the stressed ones back to natural light or shadier spot and they all regained their normal level of green, so I could easily rule out light as the cause of it.

Speaking of calcium, with just MSU fertilizer that I use about once or twice a month being all the calcium my plants get as my water has very low mineral content (40ppm TDS) and no additional application of calcium, I don't ever see anything funny that I can think of as any deficiency. My roth x anitum plant is huge with very wide and long leaves, especially the width.
I don't even go heavy on nitrogen, either.

 

[Happypaphy7]

I'm leaving in 12 days, I won't see this open

I say it will take more than 12 days to open. but how long will you be gone for? You could still see it in bloom upon your return if someone waters it or if you keep it bagged up to maintain humidity like I do when I go away.

 

[gego]

I say it will take more than 12 days to open. but how long will you be gone for? You could still see it in bloom upon your return if someone waters it or if you keep it bagged up to maintain humidity like I do when I go away.

I will be gone for 1.5 months. My wife will water them with a pre mixed solution. The room has a good humidity. I will stake it before I leave and just ask for pics.

 

[gego]

I'm only talking about this specific bred. The rest of my plants were ok. If you are pushing for growth it will only take one deficient nutrient to take the plant back and the rest could be unused salt and thus may burn or show toxicity. If nitrogen is low then the rest can be low and your light must also be low. My LED light was actually pushing growth which I thought at first was not adequate. In my experience with this group the usual visual typical symptoms did not show. This is probably one of those that we try to grow and they just don't like what we give them. So they just slowly decline. And we call them hard to grow. They would have been in the trash. But I bought these flasks to learn more so I persevere. In the end the only solution I believed controlled the decline was adjusting the pH. I had all nutrients in there, some of them were just not readily available. I know some guys don't believe this but I do.
My take is, if a plant is in a condition of fast rapid growth, like stem elongation or root formation, calcium is very much needed and it better be there at the right time and the right condition.
I do a lot of experiments to gain and understand more about what we grow. Along the way, I killed a lot of plants. Some I know why and some remains a mystery. I have sent a whole plant for tissue analysis so we'll see.
I appreciate the exchange.

 

[Happypaphy7]

I would be curious to see the tissue analysis also!

 

[Paphman910]

Yeah this breeding turns out to grow really fast. The deficiency was so hard to read, but looked like the classic issue with one nutrient deficient, showing a deficient of another. Some got really stunted but some keep growing. My normal 100 ppm N was not enough using 311 ratio. And was very obvious during winter when they all go to my basement with LED's. I was only using mid intensity to start with and the reaction was pretty fast. In two weeks time, I see chlorosis coming out. So the light was one factor but then at first I did not know why. The rest of my plants are ok. But they were growing and when they were outside they get a drench of tap water frequently when not fertilizing. Our tap here says 80 to 100 ppm calcium bicarbonate, I thought that should be enough.
I think that assumption was wrong, in my experiment it turned out to be not enough or should I say, the plant was not absorbing enough calcium to support the fast growth. Not only is the form of calcium that is important, the pH of the solution is a big factor too. And this particular plant/breed wants it low down to 5 pH. With this plant/breed, I almost got to see what nutrient deficiencies and toxicities will do to a plant.
I don't think I'm done. There are still a lot to consider. The light source is one. Hopefully they all get to stay in one growing space year round. My take is that they don't like changes in light, nutrients and even potting media. So I'm slowly moving into using inorganic media. This Orchiata these days are not as good as before, just my opinion.
Thanks for asking.

Funny that you mention this! Pat of Kingfisher Orchid said his Phalenopsis media became really acidic was due to the roots sucking up lots of calcium. He had to supplement with Calcium nitrate during the growing season. He uses Promix HP, Large perlite and dolomite as his mix.

 

[gego]

Here is the spike before I left.4 flowers if lucky. I staked it now. The stem is big but it's doing the lowii drooping way. It looks dark so far.