cattleya mossiae alba

[dodidoki]

tag says.i think not.any thoughts?

 

[monocotman]

Gaskelliana alba?

 

[dodidoki]

Gaskelliana alba?

Thank you, David maybe you have right.

 

[Guldal]

Gaskelliana alba?

Though, not as versed in Catt.s as David, this was my first thought, too....but due to the high degree of hybridization within Catts, I find it difficult - compared to Paphs - to vouch for sure of it being a species!

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Istvan, why do you think not mossiae?

 

[dodidoki]

Istvan, why do you think not mossiae?

There is much more yellow territory in the throat of mossiae , predominantly orange or dark lemon.It has too little and pale lemon throat.Eg. from net.

 

[dodidoki]

Or my real mossiae, flowered in early spring:

 

[dodidoki]

Here is a labiata alba, i think it is the same.Could be an out of season one, as David's?First is from net, second is mine.

 

[big923cattleya]

I realize that this is just a quick evaluation based on a quick glance but isn’t mossiae a flower that is kind of a squat flower, wider then most other Cattleyas?
And this guy seems to have a gaskelliana stance, taller vertically.

 

[big923cattleya]

Good comparison. But aren’t labiata’s petals held upward a bit more? Just like this last image you posted while gaskelliana’s are held a bit more downward then labiata’s?

 

[dodidoki]

I realize that this is just a quick evaluation based on a quick glance but isn’t mossiae a flower that is kind of a squat flower, wider then most other Cattleyas?
And this guy seems to have a gaskelliana stance, taller vertically.

I think, it is labiata.Ok, it has wonky petals, not straight, but there is hot weather here, another, that this plant tried to bloom in last fall, but blastad, so that blooming time was similar as typical blooming time of labiata. This flowering shoot started in winter and produced flower till this time.

 

[terryros]

I accept that the bloom time of Cattleya species can be altered by various growing conditions, but my Chadwick’s reading tells me that a labiata should bloom after about a one month rest period from the completion of a growth, a mossiae after a 5-6 month rest period, and gaskelliana should not have a rest period but should have bud rise very soon after the completion of a growth. In addition, both labiata and mossiae should form new roots from the base of a new growth before blooming while gaskelliana should not form new roots until after blooming.

 

[geoffsharris]

Agree with Terry on this. Mossiae is quite variable from very floppy with a recurved dorsal to actually quite nice presentation as good as a nice labiata or gaskelliana. Albas are tough as the subtle differences in veining, location of coloration on the throat, etc are not present to shift ones impression. Labiata will almost always start growing in the late winter/early spring and bloom in Sept/Nov after a shortish rest. Depending on growing condisions, it will frequently make 2 growths a season. Mossiae blooms around May from a previously matured growth almost always from a brown sheath. It will then start to put out a new growth pretty quickly after bloom, which doesn't happen in labiata. Gaskelliana starts putting out a new growth in Jan-Feb that is fully mature from May-Jul and blooms immediately after completing its growth from a green sheath. The when it starts growing, flowers and roots sequencing is a much better way to judge what the most likely species is vs. looking at the flowers. A couple of them are also given away by smell. Gaskelliana, jenmanii and labiata are very nice and have similar floral smells vs. say percivalliana. The other thing is that labiata virtually always has a double sheath (as does warnerii). This rarely occurs in jenmanii and I've never seen it in gaskelliana or mossiae.

 

[terryros]

Thanks. I forgot about the double sheath issue.

 

[DrLeslieEe]

I agree with both Terry and Geoff. The habit of growth, the rest period, the double sheath and fragrance all are important to identify the species. Most of the labiate type of flowers look very similar in shape and in albas the yellow markings on the throat can vary from a small yellow disc (as in plena forms) to golden striations that cover entire lip.

To me this flower can be a ‘donkey ear’ mossiae with reduced golden striations.

 

[tomp]

I agree with both Terry and Geoff. The habit of growth, the rest period, the double sheath and fragrance all are important to identify the species. Most of the labiate type of flowers look very similar in shape and in albas the yellow markings on the throat can vary from a small yellow disc (as in plena forms) to golden striations that cover entire lip.

To me this flower can be a ‘donkey ear’ mossiae with reduced golden striations.

Leslie. “Donkey Ear” ??

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Leslie. “Donkey Ear” ??

Haha yes the petals droop down to mimic the ears of the equine friends.

 

[tomp]

Haha yes the petals droop down to mimic the ears of the equine friends.

Ah makes sense and I love donkeys too. Would /is this descriptor used with other species as well ? like maxima etc or just specific to mossiae?

 

[David B]

Ok so I do not know why you formed the opinion that you are uncomfortable thinking it is mossiae. This creates a best guess process. Treat this as a learning experience and start making notes regarding flower color pattern, form, fragrance, plant habit, root vigor and initiation, and flower sheath form. I know I have missed some, but learn the differences between this plant and gaskelliana and labiata. I have flowered 3 different mossiae this year and can identify the plants by pseudobulb and leaf form from across a greenhouse, I also benefit from having several different labiata and gaskelliana and there are distinct leaf form and and angular settings in the way that the plants present their leaf surface in order to photosynthesis. If possible, perhaps you can take detailed flower segment pics and send them to a taxonomist for ID.

 

[dodidoki]

Thank you all, I just arrived home, it has very strong fragrant and has single sheat .Plant came from Floralia , Brasil.