Cypripedium 2011

[yijiawang]

Hello Hakone
It is an interesting problem that identify farreri and fasciolatum, because they are similar species but with very different result if hybrid with other species. So I think worthy to discuss more about them.

At first, a special thing, there are many super high mountains in China, they block gene communication between different forms. So there are many different varieties and forms of each species in China, very interesting----but difficult for classification.

So, it is not enough that identify species from one sample only.

Well, let's discuss Froschii's pictures.

It did not label where he took the pictures, In China,farreri grow in S Gansu or N&W Sichuan or NW Yunnan. N&W Sichuan forms are different with the pictures showed, and different plants&flora in the background. So I think his pictures maybe taken in S.Gansu.

Ok, let's check other pictures of farreri except mine and froschii's.

If you have one book named ORCHIDS OF HUANGLONG?by Dr.Holger Perner. Page 79, there is a picture of farreri, same staminode with mine.

And, flora of China, describe farreri :http://www.efloras.org/florataxon.aspx?flora_id=3&taxon_id=242316554
with several sheaths at base and often 2 leaves above.----same as mine.

Of course, before gene analysis, without people could 100% confirm plant species. Like succulent, similar shape but totally different gene. Whatever, I am looking forward what's happened for farreri and macranthum album hybrid

I attached 2 pictures, one is taked by Dr.Holger Perner. Another is from Chinese edition of FLORA OF CHINA. Click this link for larger pictures of farreri in FLORA OF CHINA---https://www.sugarsync.com/pf/D358646_6182929_36559

 

[Hakone]

Hello yijiawang,


You are right. I have the books:

- A field guide to the orchids of china , Chen Singchi, Page 148
- Orchids of Huanglong, Holger Perner , Page 79
- Nativ orchids of china in colour, Chen Singchi, Page 129

Your plant is farreri , my plant is fasciolatum

 

[Hakone]

Dear yijawang,

What is a kinds this plant?




thank you very much

 

[yijiawang]

Hello yijiawang,


You are right. I have the books:

- A field guide to the orchids of china , Chen Singchi, Page 148
- Orchids of Huanglong, Holger Perner , Page 79
- Nativ orchids of china in colour, Chen Singchi, Page 129

Your plant is farreri , my plant is fasciolatum

Hello, You have rich book collection!
Obviously, Chen Singchi is wrong on farreri in these 2 books.

Thank you for trusting me to identify species, it is very difficult that according to leaves only. It seems like farreri, without any fuzzy on farreri's leaves and stem. But need rhizome and roots details too. farreri rhizome is very thin, and long thin roots.... this species grow in very damp/moist situ, need not storage water by thick rhizome and roots----different with tibeticum and flavum because without dry winter~

PS: Your garden is very beautiful, east style~:clap:

 

[Hakone]

Dear yijiawang,

Obviously, Chen Singchi is wrong on farreri in these 2 books.

you are right

Your garden is very beautiful, east style

thank you very much

 

[Dido]

Again somethng learned with that species Farreri.

The Hybrid sounds interesting. Hope you will have success.

Which you the best on this.

 

[Hakone]

tibeticum

 

[Hakone]

Ulla Silkens

 

[Hakone]

Smithii

 

[KyushuCalanthe]

That is quite a range of plants you've got there Hakone. I love all the tibeticum in particular.

That last flower is definitely not C. smithii (syn. C. calcicolum) however. Looks more like a tibeticum variant, or even franchetii.

 

[yijiawang]

Hello, an interesting smithii because I never saw light color form before. or maybe from too shade? I do not know. this species is similar to tibeticum as Tom said.
These are some pictures of smithii and franchetii. franchetii is variable species too....
Change, the biggest pleasure from orchid.

 

[Hakone]

Dear Tom,

franchetii has another staminodium , labellum opening and habitus than smithii


staminodium


tibeticum staminodium



tibeticum staminodium


labellum opening tibeticum with white edge





habitus

 

[Hakone]

Hello, an interesting smithii because I never saw light color form before. or maybe from too shade? I do not know. this species is similar to tibeticum as Tom said.
These are some pictures of smithii and franchetii. franchetii is variable species too....
Change, the biggest pleasure from orchid.

Dear yijiawang,

you are right, too shade ., franchetii white edge has to labellum opening

 

[Dido]

That is quite a range of plants you've got there Hakone. I love all the tibeticum in particular.

That last flower is definitely not C. smithii (syn. C. calcicolum) however. Looks more like a tibeticum variant, or even franchetii.

I fully agree.

It is a really nice flower. And looks for me like the big tibeticum Perner is offering
at the moment. Sad that till now he was not able to fix the problems with the customs.
So hopefully they will come in.

Jeff I use a link on your side, hope this will be OK.

http://lanesidehardyorchids.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=21&products_id=177

Some were talking about a kind which was offered in ebay from China I think it was labeled as Spec 3, so maybe yours is the same as this one.
YOu told you have contact to perner a long while ago, so maybe you can ask him or Frosch if it could be in the range of tibeticum.

You can look in Eccarius too.

What he thinks about the big range of tibeticum

So Hakone, and this is not a discusson of Anthocyane.

 

[Hakone]

Dear Dido,

all tibeticum have white edge at labellum opening , my have not, have you an explanation.

My Anthocyane Theory , have you reading in Orchideenkultur.net ?

Thanks you very much

 

[Dido]

Yes I have and there the others told you too, that this is not smithii.

At Eccarius you will find a lot of pictures without a white edge at labellum opening.

So you have to tell the Experts which do a lot of research that they are wrong.

And by the way. HE only mention any more tibeticum ssp calciocola and only speak as synonyme from smithii.

The staminoide from his pict of calcicola and tibeticum looks sometimes the same.

Do you have a list or a data collection which is showing that with this staminoide it will be tibeticum or whith thta it will be smithii.

We had the same discussion with Yiyia at Farreri.

 

[Hakone]

It is well-known smithii = tibeitcum var. calcicola = calcicolum. Did I say others?

tibeticum var. froschii

 

[Hakone]

That is quite a range of plants you've got there Hakone. I love all the tibeticum in particular.

That last flower is definitely not C. smithii (syn. C. calcicolum) however. Looks more like a tibeticum variant, or even franchetii.

Dear Tom,

is franchetii another tibeticum variant ?

 

[KyushuCalanthe]

Dear Tom,

is franchetii another tibeticum variant ?

Actually, I have no idea. I think most authors still consider them distinct. From what I've heard franchetii tends to have more leaves and the ovary is very pubescent in comparison to tibeticum.

Here's what Dr. Holger Perner says about these species:

"Cyp. franchetii is a little similar to Cyp. tibeticum, but has a taller habit and a more leafy stem. The flower looks very much like Cyp. macranthos from Manchuria. The main distinguishing character is the dense pubescence on the stem and especially on the ovary. Also Cyp. tibeticum sometimes has a pubescent ovary, but never that dense."

 

[Hakone]

in progress



Ulla Silkens