Hangianum on eBay

[nikv]

Found this auction item on eBay (US). I don't think hangianum can legally be sold here in the U.S., but here's the link in case anyone here is interested.

http://cgi.ebay.com/CG-Orchid-Paphiopedilum-SALE-4Species-7Plants-in-BUD_W0QQitemZ380201598569QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item5885c7fe69

Best Regards,
Nik

 

[parvi_17]

This is crazy. Why are they so cheap? Wasn't this chinesegreen guy accused of selling wild-collected plants? Is he even in the States or is that a lie?

 

[smartie2000]

typical lunar new year flower industry we have heard about....(?)
I know that there comes a higher demand for flowers at this time.

If our orchid show was during the weekend of Feb 12-14th (a week late for my OS), it could easiliy be marketed to the Asian community and it would be big money machine for our orchid society. But this might not be so good for some people, as that is not the purpose of the show.

 

[kentuckiense]

They are being shipped from China, so you better hope that FWS doesn't intercept it and show up at your door.

 

[GaryB]

From the listing:

"We ship worldwide and take risk for the missing delivery to these countries, USA, UK, Canada, Japan, France, we will refund 100% if you can not receive the plants minus the S/H fees."

In other words, they know that what they are doing is illegal and getting caught is just a "cost of do business". Of course, you are out shipping and handling.

 

[nikv]

Wow, I didn't even catch that this item was shipping from China. I have my eBay search bookmarked and I have the US Only box checked. The seller lists a U.S. address which is why the auction showed up in my search. I guess I need to read all the terms and conditions carefully if I ever were to bid. But I only bid on auctions from trusted sellers and I don't know this person. I don't do imports.

 

[Shiva]

I believe these plants are legal in Canada and Cloud's Orchids has been selling them for quite a while. As for Chinese Green, I heard they deliver on their promise and they are quite large. Are they nature collected? I don't know, but without any documents for proof or for importation, customs will certainly seize them if they see them, though the odds are that they won't

 

[parvi_17]

Yes hangianums are legal in Canada if they are nursery propagated (I own a seedling myself). I don't think you're allowed to have ones that have been ripped out of the wild though.

This guy (chinesegreen) amazes me. I think it's ludicrous that he lists his address as American. I search for plants on eBay originating only from Canada and the US as well and his listings always pop up - it annoys me because I was pretty sure that he is in China (I had heard numerous complaints about him) and I refuse to buy from overseas because of the risks involved. I had never realized that he has his address listed as American though. I thought I had heard that he sells wild-collected plants, and then he had retorted and claimed that he has a lab. Maybe he does and just doesn't get the paperwork. But I have never heard of nursery propagated in-bud micranthums for $25 before, and I think you'd pay a heck of a lot more than $45 or whatever it is for a hangianum in bud too!

 

[KyushuCalanthe]

Not at all surprising unfortunately. As I type this the extremely rare C. subtropicum is being offer on eBAY in a similar fashion. This species was only rediscovered this past year and already all the new sites have been utterly plundered. Let's hope that a few remote sites remain...

But there is a silver lining to this story. Seed pods were recovered and have germinated. I'd give more information, but will wait for things to develop (yes, these are on the up and up). So, there is hope that this one will be preserved and also eventually become available to hobbiests. BTW, from the early reports the plants being taken from the wild are arriving completely rotted - yep, like the guarantee says, "DOA at your door, or your money back".

Buyer beware.

 

[Shiva]

Wether he has a lab or the plants are jungle collected, I can't imagine how he can still make money at these prices. Maybe our money goes a long way in China, but he would still have expanses to pay whatever the case.

 

[parvi_17]

Not at all surprising unfortunately. As I type this the extremely rare C. subtropicum is being offer on eBAY in a similar fashion. This species was only rediscovered this past year and already all the new sites have been utterly plundered. Let's hope that a few remote sites remain...

But there is a silver lining to this story. Seed pods were recovered and have germinated. I'd give more information, but will wait for things to develop (yes, these are on the up and up). So, there is hope that this one will be preserved and also eventually become available to hobbiests. BTW, from the early reports the plants being taken from the wild are arriving completely rotted - yep, like the guarantee says, "DOA at your door, or your money back".

Buyer beware.

The situation with Cyp subtropicum is very sad to hear. I almost jumped out of my chair when I saw the photos published in the Orchid Digest (although I had seen them on the Net previously, then thought to represent a new species, Cyp. singchii I believe). They are breathtakingly beautiful. I sure hope it doesn't go extinct - it would be one of our greatest losses.

 

[NYEric]

There are people on the forum who have bought plants from them no complaint so...

 

[parvi_17]

There are people on the forum who have bought plants from them no complaint so...

Was that directed at me? oke:

 

[NYEric]

Nope, not that I know of..

 

[parvi_17]

Nope, not that I know of..

Well I can't help but be skeptical (and a little annoyed) about it. It was a long time ago, but I think it was on this forum that I read about complaints. People that sell wild-collected plants are the reason why honest hobbyists like us have such a hard time buying art prop material thanks to CITES.

 

[smartie2000]

Either they are wild collected or he hads a very large clump to divide from. Perhaps they grow very fast for him, we have seen huge clumps from people growing in asia. In anycase I don't like this. Most likely the plants will die from stress, they will likely get some form of black rot.

 

[NYEric]

I don't think someone selling a few plants here and there is the problem w/ CITES. I think the problem is a bureaucratic indifference and lack of understanding. The fact that various countries can interpret the laws different ways and countries use the laws for politacal one-upmanship confirm this. Although I understand that immediate drastic action was required, I think CITES enforcement needs to be tempered or balanced by actual research. Hopefully, major people whose livelihoods depend on revision to the laws will step up [and I mean not for selfish reasons] and that governments will actually follow some good advice.

 

[parvi_17]

I don't think someone selling a few plants here and there is the problem w/ CITES. I think the problem is a bureaucratic indifference and lack of understanding. The fact that various countries can interpret the laws different ways and countries use the laws for politacal one-upmanship confirm this. Although I understand that immediate drastic action was required, I think CITES enforcement needs to be tempered or balanced by actual research. Hopefully, major people whose livelihoods depend on revision to the laws will step up [and I mean not for selfish reasons] and that governments will actually follow some good advice.

I agree with you, but don't forget that though this is one person, he is one of MANY people doing this. Collectively, they actually make a very large impact. I definitely think that habitat destruction plays a larger role in the disappearance of orchids, but how does that validate ripping them out of the wild, from habitats that are not yet under threat of being logged or tore down for whatever reason?

Besides, CITES was created to restrict the trade of collected plants, and that was my point.

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

Chinese Green is a member here. He hasn't posted recently, but a few years ago he posted with an apology for selling collected paphs. he said that he was no longer going to sell collected plants, and that he had set up a breeding program and would only sell propagated plants. In his description of the hangianums he sells, he describes them as divisions of mother plants. (This would be legal with CITES, if it weren't hangianum but an older species.) As to how he can afford to sell these plants....well, how many would he normally sell? With a package deal like this, he will surely sell out quickly...and if he has good plants that arrive safely, he may well make some loyal repeat customers. While the hang is slow, micranthum and armeniacum are quite capable of propagating loads of offshoots under ideal conditions...and I would assume they are probably pretty cheap in China...I can easily pick up divisions of both species on Ebay for $10....American grown. As to the truth of what he says about propagating them, well....its a matter of trust...I'll leave it to you guys to draw your own conclusions. It would be nice if CG could respond to this thread, if he is still on the forum. Take care, Eric

 

[snow]

i don,t know why we give this guy any time of the day.
this is exactly what we orchid people are trying to protect. orchids from the wild.it all sounds fishy to me