Hello all

[Candace]

Thanks for clarifying, Lance. I'm curious to what Jesse's results are when he does some ph testing.

 

[bwester]

Lance, we're gonna have to work on gettin Jesse back to the old stuff

 

[gonewild]

Lance, we're gonna have to work on gettin Jesse back to the old stuff

Reporting for duty Sir. :wink:

I am available to answer any questions based on what I observed.

 

[GROWINHYDRO.COM]

pH testing - inital results

OK, here are some initial results for you all...

I calibrated the meter in buffer 7.01 - temp 70°F

Tap water reads 7.05 going in to the R/O unit.

I took three R/O water samples (70°F) and tested them each 5 times to gain an average.

Averages:
Sample 1 - 5.67
Sample 2 - 5.64
Sample 3 - 5.58

Re-calibrated meter.

I filled a 4.5" pot with uncleaned PrimeAgra from an unopened bag off the pallet and added the water from Sample #1 and let it soak for 10 minutes.

The initial reading was a pH of 4.95, after 5 minutes I removed the media and the final reading was 4.46.

For water sample #2, I re-calibrated the meter and I cleaned pot full of PrimeAgra, agitating and changing the water 10 times. I then let it soak for 30 minutes and rinsed it again with clean R/O water.

I added water sample #2 to the media and the initial reading was 6.01. After 5 minutes I removed the media and took a final reading of the water only and got a pH of 6.44. I found it curious that the pH jumped up 0.4 when the media was removed.

I added the cleaned PrimeAgra back to water sample #2 and again metered it this time at 6.03. I left the meter in place and added the media back to the water and watched it climb back up to 6.43.

I did nothing with water sample #3, I just wanted a control.

So, my results thus far:

Sample 1 - 5.67 - dirty uncleaned and unused PrimeAgra - final pH 4.46 (media removed)
Sample 2 - 5.64 - cleaned and flushed PrimeAgra - final pH 6.44 (water only) 6.01 with media.

I don't have an explanation for the 0.4 change when the media is added back to the water. Testing it twice showed the same results, so I would surmise that the ceramic is slightly acidic; though to confuse things I noticed when I took the dirty media out of water sample #1, the pH dropped 0.2

I have left both samples to soak for 24 hours. I'll take readings again tomorrow at 11pm. I'll do some pH tests tomorrow as well with MSU 19-4-23 and 13-3-15 and this new PrimeAgra.

I didn't get a chance to go out and look tonight but I'll check and see what type of residue I see on the orchids I potted in the new PA a few months ago.

Hope this is somewhat helpful so far.

Best regards,
Jesse

 

[gonewild]

Can you take EC (PPM or TDS) readings as well?

 

[GROWINHYDRO.COM]

Can you take EC (PPM or TDS) readings as well?

Sure!

I had access to an analog EC meter so my readings aren't going uber precise as the digitals think they are oke: but will work.

I know I'm due a new membrane on my RO unit so the TDS of the water it's putting out is at about 40-50.

Knowing that, my EC results are as follows:

Sample #1 - TDS 900 (PrimeAgra uncleaned straight out of the bag)

Sample #2 - TDS 450 (PrimeAgra cleaned, rinsed, and soaked)


I checked the pH again both with the meter, and 0 - 14 pH indicator strips.

Sample #1 - pH 4.03 (strip indicates a pH closer to 4.5) tested 2x

Sample #2 - pH 5.83 (strip confirms it is right under a pH of 6) tested 2x, so we're right in there with rain water.

So even with the cleaned PrimeAgra, water sample #2 is showing a TDS of 400 before we are even contemplating adding fertilizer.

So if my data is correct, there is certainly room for concern for the more salt sensitive in or our orchid collections.

Well those are my unbiased results so far...

Cheers!

 

[biothanasis]

Welcome...!!!!

 

[gonewild]

So even with the cleaned PrimeAgra, water sample #2 is showing a TDS of 400 before we are even contemplating adding fertilizer.

So if my data is correct, there is certainly room for concern for the more salt sensitive in or our orchid collections.

Well those are my unbiased results so far...

Cheers!

Do you have any "old" PrimeAgra you can compare to?

Your test results indicate that the Prime Agra is not an inert material because
both EC and pH of the water are greatly effected by the media.
It appears the media contains an excess of soluble salts and is likely very acidic.

It would be interesting to have a chemical analysis of the media.

My previous tests showed that the leaching continued for at least 2 months at which point I quite monitoring the levels. Do you know if the the "new" PrimeAgra is actually manufactured for horticulture?

Can you post a photo of the pebbles you tested?

Thanks for posting the good information from your tests.

 

[GROWINHYDRO.COM]

Do you have any "old" PrimeAgra you can compare to?
Can you post a photo of the pebbles you tested?

Unfortunately, I sold off all the old PrimeAgra when I got my first pallet of the new. I do have the old PA in use in the greenhouse...some of which since 2003.

Here is a photo of the pebbles I tested:

 

[GROWINHYDRO.COM]

Here are some photos of the Catt's I potted up a few months ago:

 

[GROWINHYDRO.COM]

Of course as I dug around I found some residual salts. Not unexpected, I did feed last weekend, but the freshwater sprinklers cycle every 3 days so they got flushed.

 

[gonewild]

Of course as I dug around I found some residual salts. Not unexpected, I did feed last weekend, but the freshwater sprinklers cycle every 3 days so they got flushed.

How about doing pH and EC tests on the resivoir water in the pots?

 

[gonewild]

Unfortunately, I sold off all the old PrimeAgra when I got my first pallet of the new. I do have the old PA in use in the greenhouse...some of which since 2003.

Here is a photo of the pebbles I tested:

The box of "new" Primeagra I got from Ray was amost black in color where yours is red.

I wonder how many different medias are being sold as PrimeAgra?

 

[GROWINHYDRO.COM]

Can you recommend an EC meter, I'll go order one. Our neighbors kid works at Leslie Pool Supply and he let me at their analog meter yesterday, I don't want to get him in trouble. If we really want to delve into some testing here, which I am more than happy to do because I'm sincerely interested as well, I should have one handy. I had been putting off buying one anyways.

 

[GROWINHYDRO.COM]

The box of "new" Primeagra I got from Ray was amost black in color where yours is red.

I wonder how many different medias are being sold as PrimeAgra?

I think it is redder because the media is wet and the flash. But I have never seen a black PrimeAgra product. The only black or dark brown LECA product I've seen is TWFKI (Fu Kung Hydro). Let me go get you a photo in a bag and see how that compares.

To the best of my knowledge, legally there is only one product being sold as PrimeAgra. I had to sign nondisclosure and I pay Ray a fee to use his trademark's. The only LECA product that can legally be called PrimeAgra is sold or distributed to resellers by Ray (Firstrays Orchid's).

As for where and who manufactures it. That is proprietary information known only by Ray himself.

Give me a sec, i'll go get you a photo

 

[GROWINHYDRO.COM]

New bag of the New PrimeAgra

Here's a shot into a new bag of PA

 

[gonewild]

Can you recommend an EC meter, I'll go order one. Our neighbors kid works at Leslie Pool Supply and he let me at their analog meter yesterday, I don't want to get him in trouble. If we really want to delve into some testing here, which I am more than happy to do because I'm sincerely interested as well, I should have one handy. I had been putting off buying one anyways.

You can buy an inexpensive meter for about $20 that will work just fine.
Like a TDS139 from orchid-depot.com

 

[gonewild]

I think it is redder because the media is wet and the flash. But I have never seen a black PrimeAgra product. The only black or dark brown LECA product I've seen is TWFKI (Fu Kung Hydro). Let me go get you a photo in a bag and see how that compares.

To the best of my knowledge, legally there is only one product being sold as PrimeAgra. I had to sign nondisclosure and I pay Ray a fee to use his trademark's. The only LECA product that can legally be called PrimeAgra is sold or distributed to resellers by Ray (Firstrays Orchid's).

As for where and who manufactures it. That is proprietary information known only by Ray himself.

Give me a sec, i'll go get you a photo

Here is a picture of the old PrimeAgra and the new PrimeAgra, both shipped to me from Ray. The new material is actually blacker when dry. Both are completely different from the material you have. Definitely not the same although the media you tested gave similar poor test results as to what I tested despite the color difference.

 

[GROWINHYDRO.COM]

In case your interested

TWFKI the Old PA and New PA.
Dry and wet

Lance, your darker media does resemble the New PrimeAgra. Maybe that batch was fired at a lower temp. I'm not sure what type of control the manufacturer has from batch to batch. Also, if the raw material had less iron oxide, it would account for the lack of red or terracotta color tones. But the particle shape, size and surface (with chips) appears to be consistent with the new PrimeAgra. Curious though...

 

[Candace]

I received a plant from Lance that was potted in a mix of the old and new primeagra and I'll back what he said about his batch. It was dark, dark charcoal grey in color, almost a black. I repotted it today in the old primeagra only and threw the mix of the two out.