Hello all

[GROWINHYDRO.COM]

I received a plant from Lance that was potted in a mix of the old and new primeagra and I'll back what he said about his batch. It was dark, dark charcoal grey in color, almost a black. I repotted it today in the old primeagra only and threw the mix of the two out.

Oh I don't doubt Lance, I just don't have the answers. In my experience so far I haven't seen a PrimeAgra product that color, but I only go through a fraction of what Ray does. So I have no idea what the variations may be between shipments from his manufacturer.

I agree this new PrimeAgra is clearly not like the original product, but if you have been buying the original PrimeAgra over the years you probably noticed the the shape of the media was getting weirder and weirder, and less uniform. You can see it in my photos posted earlier.

My understanding is that the manufacturer upgraded and replaced a fair amount of equipment and added some computer controlled components to rectify the odd particle shape and gain better control over the firing and the process as a whole. So my understanding is that the product is still being produced in the same place, just on updated technology.

I really wish I could shed some light as to what is going on, but I just don't know. I have known Ray since 2003 and he just does not come across to me as the type of person that would switch to an inferior product just to turn a buck. I'm inclined to surmise that the company that produces the product made some changes and we're stuck with what we've got.

I'm not entirely sure how much control Ray has over the final product. If you read on his page he explains how he came up with this culture of growing orchids, so I think its safe to say he finally found a LECA product somewhere that met his criteria, realized its potential, and marketed it under his trademarks. And it is entirely feasible to assume that said company may have modified its product in order to lower its costs, or expand in to other markets.

This all of course is speculation as I have never asked Ray nor expect him to divulge anything other than my wholesale cost. However, as I puzzle over our particular quandary, I can't help but think that the simplest answer is just that.

Best regards,
Jesse

 

[Candace]

I wish he could get the old stuff back:<

 

[eldone]

Hi, I am new to this forum. I am the one that Jesse was referring to who is having problems with the roots rotting off. I had bought Prime Agra from Jesse and switched most of my orchids over to S/H and initially they looked like they were happy. Recently however, I am noticing that the leaves are shriveling and when I took one of the plants out the roots nearer the middle and bottom were rotting off. I think that I have the old Prime Agra but I am not 100% sure, I only know that it may have been about a year ago that I switched.

Here is what I can tell you so far. I have mainly Phals , Catts and a few Dens. I was new at growing orchids so I have been using softened water until I noticed the shriveling of the leaves. I then found out that softened water is a no, no so I started using unsoftened water. I water each week using a weak fertilizer solution and fill the orchid pot up and then let it flush out into a small bucket. I then reuse that water for the next orchid in order to save on the fertilizer costs. I have also been using Physan 20 occasionally both to mist and added to my fertilizer water.

Someone else suggested that the orchids looked like they might have Fusarium Wilt so just in case I am treating them for that at the present time. However, I didn't think that the Fusarium Wilt would affect the roots.

And last but not least I grow my orchids in a case that has a gravel pan on the bottom that I keep a little bit of water in. There is a four bulb fluorescent light above and a fan that circulates the air during the day. The case is enclosed with doors on the front that I keep open slightly to allow for better air circulation. I keep the case in a spare bedroom so the plants basically have the same temperatures that our house has especially at night. During the day the temperature does go up a little because of the heat from the light fixture.

Any suggestions would really be appreciated as I am stumped! I really would like to keep using the S/H method if possible as it seems that it is less likely to over water the plants.

 

[Candace]

You've confessed to at least 2 major problems. One you were using softened water and two you're reusing water which passes on any virus, fungus or bacteria throughout your whole collection. You need to stop reusing water as you're seeing the results of one plant getting sick and spreading throughout.

Hopefully you can baby some of them back to good health, but in this instance I doubt s/h has had much to do with your plants decline. Using softened water will weaken them and kill them in s/h or an organic mix.

I'd suggest you do what you can to revive them, but starting over with healthy plants and good culture will give you a better idea if s/h will work well for you.

 

[eldone]

Well, it looks like I am learning the hard way. It is interesting thought that the Phals that I did not put in S/H are doing quite well. The leaves do show slight weathering on one of them but the other three are doing well and have been blooming.

Does the S/H method require the plant to be washed with clear water every now and then? I am fairly new at this so would appreciate any help.

Thanks!

 

[gonewild]

You need to determine if you have the new or old type of PrimeAgra.

 

[eldone]

From what I can tell based upon some of the photos that have been posted and the fact that I purchased this about a year ago it would appear that I have the old type PrimeAgra.

 

[Heather]

I'm going to echo Candace on the softened water - that's one of the first and most important cardinal rules of growing orchids. Softened water is not a good idea.

 

[NYEric]

S/H also. :evil:

 

[gonewild]

From what I can tell based upon some of the photos that have been posted and the fact that I purchased this about a year ago it would appear that I have the old type PrimeAgra.

I think about a year ago is when the new PrimeAgra came in, so you may have the new. Are your pebbles mostly rounded or are a lot of them irregular and rough in shape?

If you have the new PA and also used softened water that may compound the salt (sodium) problem.

You should not need to flush the pots with clear water if you are watering correctly. Use enough fertilizer water to flush the pots each time you water your plants and there should be no problem with salt build up if the media is inert.

 

[GROWINHYDRO.COM]

From what I can tell based upon some of the photos that have been posted and the fact that I purchased this about a year ago it would appear that I have the old type PrimeAgra.

Eldon, I show an order from you on March 22, 2007. I have a BOL that shows a pickup date of March 21st for a pallet of the new PrimeAgra. I know I had several hundred liters of the original PrimeAgra still in stock, so if I had to guess, I would say your Kit went out with it the old.

You'll know you have the old stuff if you have popcorn shaped pellets. This new stuff is all spherical and consistently round.

 

[eldone]

Yes, mine is irregular shaped similar to popcorn and is lighter in color. I have always flushed with the fertilizer water however, now I will waste it each time.

Thanks!

 

[gonewild]

Yes, mine is irregular shaped similar to popcorn and is lighter in color. I have always flushed with the fertilizer water however, now I will waste it each time.

Thanks!

Yes "waste" the fertilizer. When you use the water that drains from the pot to flush the next pot you are putting all the flushed out salts into the next pot. By the time you do the last pot your water could be quite harmful to the plants. That alone is probably what caused most of your problems. Actually had you been growing in a normal organic mix rather than leca you probably would have had problems sooner.

 

[eldone]

Thanks for the help. I had been growing in the commercially available bark mulch orchid mix and had trouble with my tendency to over water.

I think I will check the plants in the next few weeks and trim the dead roots off. Then I am planning on using some rooting hormones as I did when I changed over to the S/H method. Maybe that will give them a little boost.

Thanks again!

 

[NYEric]

Welcome to the forum!

 

[GROWINHYDRO.COM]

How about doing pH and EC tests on the resivoir water in the pots?

I received my EC meter today and tested the reservoir water on the Catt's I potted up about 2 months ago. They are on a weekly feed of MSU @ 125PPM, and fresh water sprinklers flush them every 3 days.

I averaged a few tests and the PPM is 768. The pH tested at 5.28 on the digital and a 5 on a 0-14 indicator strip.

I re-tested the PA that I washed 10 times and soaked in RO now for about a week, and the water tested at 103 PPM

I'm going to have to re-do these tests...

 

[Bolero]

Welcome to the forum!!!

 

[GROWINHYDRO.COM]

Welcome to the forum!!!

Thanks!

 

[GROWINHYDRO.COM]

I received my EC meter today and tested the reservoir water on the Catt's I potted up about 2 months ago. They are on a weekly feed of MSU @ 125PPM, and fresh water sprinklers flush them every 3 days.

I averaged a few tests and the PPM is 768. The pH tested at 5.28 on the digital and a 5 on a 0-14 indicator strip.

I re-tested the PA that I washed 10 times and soaked in RO now for about a week, and the water tested at 103 PPM

I'm going to have to re-do these tests...

I posted the results here: http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5010