K-Lite has been around a few years now... updates?

[Rick]

Another common practice that adds to anionic imbalances is pot liming (either by oystershell, fine aragonite or dolomitic lime products).

This practice adds a ton of bicarbonate which competes directly with nitrate and phosphate uptake. Secondarily Calcium carbonate sucks up phosphate making it unavailable to the plant.

In another thread on lime use I included that I have removed all lime products from use in my potting systems (other than what occurs in my diluted well water).

 

[troy]

This stuff is great!!! everytime I come across this thread reminds me

 

[Rick]

pH – 6.81
Conductivity – 60 uS/cm (TDS ~ 45 ppm)
Total Hardness – 26.4 mg/L as CaCO3
Alkalinity – 20 mg/L as CaCO3 (24.4 mg/L HCO3)
6.8 mg/L Ca, 2.3 mg/L Mg
Nitrate – 3.7 mg/L NO3-N, Ammonia - 0.1 mg/L NH3-N
Phosphorus – 1.05 PO4-P
Potassium – 0.6 mg/L K
Sulfate – 3.0 mg/L SO4
Silicate – 2.8 mg/L SiO2

Above is the final (i.e AFTER mixing in Klite, my MgPO4/SO4 solution, and well water) irrigation solution that I've been applying to my plants DAILY for the last 2 years.

Note that you cannot get these values by mixing K lite in RO water.

To take out the effects from potting mix I do have a single (correct not a significant number for a "full experimental trial") Paph lowii sitting in the above water full time, since November of last year. The support matrix is large glass beads so no additional chemical support is getting to the plant beyond the water. The plant is green and grows leaves and roots just fine. So after 8 months the above solution is fully supportive of Paph lowii growth (completely ignoring the other several hundred plants in my collection that are in potting systems ranging from SH to traditional bark/chc mixes in pots).

If one where to insist on using a potting mix and with some form of calcium bearing material, I'd probably just add a pinch of bone meal (calcium phosphate) and gypsum (calcium sulfate) to the potting mix instead of something that runs up the pH, and just use Klite in RO at roughly 5ppm N.

Or for the Orchiata bark users a pinch of bonemeal with no gypsum, and mix Klite in a dilute city or well water.

Everyday I'm amazed as to how little orchids need to thrive.

 

[DavidCampen]

Addressing a much earlier series of comments:

Over the last couple of weeks, I had conversations with three university horticulture professors and two plant-nutrient specialists in that industry, and they independently and unanimously stated that general yellowing of leaves ("Of course it will be older ones first") is very likely a simple insufficiency of nitrogen, and not likely due to other nutrient shortages.

It is still obvious that using k-lite had a strong negative effect on many people's collections. K-lite was an absurd idea lacking any basis in fact.

 

[DavidCampen]

Above is the final (i.e AFTER mixing in Klite, my MgPO4/SO4 solution, and well water) irrigation solution that I've been applying to my plants DAILY for the last 2 years.

Note that you cannot get these values by mixing K lite in RO water.

So, you take k-lite, mix it with a bunch of other nutrient sources and get what is perhaps a decent nutrient mixture. That is not how you were promoting k-lite 2 years ago.

 

[Ray]

Despite David's objections and total lack of positive contribution to the discussion of the science or supposition relating to the formulation, my entire collection of plants appears to be doing quite well with K-Lite in RO.

Nay-saying without contribution is a waste of time.

 

[Stone]

So, you take k-lite, mix it with a bunch of other nutrient sources and get what is perhaps a decent nutrient mixture.

I would not call a mix where availability of P is higher than K decent. IMO it is a big mistake.

 

[Rick]

I would not call a mix where availability of P is higher than K decent. IMO it is a big mistake.

How many more years do I need to wait for the hammer to fall. My stuff just keeps getting bigger and better.:wink:

 

[Stone]

How many more years do I need to wait for the hammer to fall. My stuff just keeps getting bigger and better.:wink:

It shows the adapability of plants. Mine are getting bigger and better too and really I don't see why you persist with the low K idea when you can plainly grow excellent, healthy and long lived plants with great colour and profuse flowering the ''normal way'' And by normal I mean N and K at similar concentrations.
It is just not necessary. I mean what are you actually trying to achieve in the end?

 

[Rick]

It shows the adaptability of plants. ...when you can plainly grow excellent, healthy and long lived plants with great colour and profuse flowering the ''normal way''

Maybe my standards were higher than other growers, but I couldn't achieve the ultimate results you are claiming I would get if I just went back to a "normal feeding regime". Why were my plants not adapting to the "proven methods" for my previous 10 years?

Folks have pretty short memory with the myriad post that start out " I just killed this species (again)..... or can't grow seedlings.....or constantly battling this disease.....or I only get 3-5 years out of this species.....".

I cut K back in 2011 and drastically reduced negative outcomes. My goal is to grow great plants, and I'm not shy sharing what works form me, and what didn't work for me. My plants are flourishing so I'm not going back. I'm not sure why you persist in claiming that a high K regime is necessary for growing good plants.

 

[Stone]

Folks have pretty short memory with the myriad post that start out " I just killed this species (again)..... or can't grow seedlings.....or constantly battling this disease.....or I only get 3-5 years out of this species.....".

Come on now Rick, that has nothing to do with potassium and you know it.

If you want proof of that still.... I do not have any of the above issuses. I have the occasional problem with one or two species which are difficult and everyone has the same difficulty with them not beacuse of nutrient imbalance but because they are just difficult. Eg: Oncidium lanceanum, Dendrobium cuthbertsonii, Dendrobium scabriligue,

I cut K back in 2011 and drastically reduced negative outcomes (many of which most folks considered status quo). My plants are flourishing so I'm not going back.

Come back to the dark side. :evil:

 

[Rick]

Come on now Rick, that has nothing to do with potassium and you know it.

What's my secret?
Seriously I obviously don't know it.
And apparently the plants don't either:wink:

 

[DavidCampen]

Folks have pretty short memory with the myriad post that start out " I just killed this species (again)..... or can't grow seedlings.....or constantly battling this disease.....or I only get 3-5 years out of this species.....".

You should read the first several pages of this thread where a number of people blame the use of k-lite for causing severe problems.

I cut K back in 2011 and drastically reduced negative outcomes. My goal is to grow great plants, and I'm not shy sharing what works form me, and what didn't work for me. My plants are flourishing so I'm not going back. I'm not sure why you persist in claiming that a high K regime is necessary for growing good plants.

You don't even use pure k-lite, as you have said several times.

Above is the final (i.e AFTER mixing in Klite, my MgPO4/SO4 solution, and well water) irrigation solution that I've been applying to my plants DAILY for the last 2 years.

Note that you cannot get these values by mixing K lite in RO water.

I don't know why you persist in calling a normal fertilizer formulation "high-k", it is not. You should retract that absurd article that you had published in AOS.

 

[Stone]

I'm not sure why you persist in claiming that a high K regime is necessary for growing good plants.

Actually you seem to have it backwards. You are claiming that a LOW K regime is necessary for growing good plants.

A standard N to K ratio (say 20-5-15 or 20) is not high. A high K regime would be something like 10-5-30 which I would generally not recommend. If you added another 20% N to that it would be fine.
60ppm N and 60ppm K works perfectly fine long term for most orchids as long as there is a good amount of Ca and Mg.

 

[Ray]

Perhaps there is not an insufficiency of nitrogen but just the wrong type (
i.e. too much nitrate and not enough ammonium and urea.)

A good point. The VP of sales for Inocucor technologies has stated that his plants seem to do better when a tiny but of urea is added to the solution. When I mentioned that to a technical expert at a fertilizer manufacturer, the response was "(chuckle, chuckle) Of course!" The biological action of the Inocucor Garden Solution is making that nitrogen immediately available.

 

[Ray]

How many more years do I need to wait for the hammer to fall. My stuff just keeps getting bigger and better.:wink:

It shows the adapability of plants. Mine are getting bigger and better too and really I don't see why you persist with the low K idea when you can plainly grow excellent, healthy and long lived plants with great colour and profuse flowering the ''normal way'' And by normal I mean N and K at similar concentrations.
It is just not necessary. I mean what are you actually trying to achieve in the end?

I believe the only way we'll ever see an end to this discussion is when a large-scale, controlled study is done.

"My stuff just keeps getting bigger and better.", "Mine are getting bigger and better too", and my own comments about how well my plants are doing are relatively meaningless - about as good as "I feed at half strength".

 

[consettbay2003]

The 'manufacturers' of orchidata recommend an ammonium content equal to or higher than nitrate or just basic urea.

 

[Rick]

So, you take k-lite, mix it with a bunch of other nutrient sources and get what is perhaps a decent nutrient mixture. T.

Back in 2011 I was already using a portion of well water, and kelp in addition to MSU.

So now I still use the same amount of well water as previous 8 or so years and replaced the kelp (a huge black box of organic and inorganic nutrients) with a very simple supplement of Mg /PO4 and SO4.

So I've simplified the mix considerably.

Further more, compared to my weekly weakly MSU use (prior to 2011) I now use only 1/25 the amount of K, 1/4 the amount of N and 1/3 the amount of P on an annual basis.

The biomass of my collection has increased since 2011 while considerably reducing the application rate of NPK (especially K).

Now the biomass increase is not due to purchase of new/replacement plants, so why do I need all that K?

 

[Rick]

Also on a per watering/feeding event my present NPK application rates are:

1/26, 1/24, 1/188 respectively for NPK compared to my weekly/weakly MSU days.

Those are substantial reductions and still growing strong!

 

[Rick]

I believe the only way we'll ever see an end to this discussion is when a large-scale, controlled study is done.

"My stuff just keeps getting bigger and better.", "Mine are getting bigger and better too", and my own comments about how well my plants are doing are relatively meaningless - about as good as "I feed at half strength".

I also have several local society members (including our own EdM) that have been successfully using low K applications (either K lite or home brew).

One grower near me, that I can inspect in person on a frequent basis, is also having phenomenal results with K-lite as the base fert. Their collection is also considerably larger than mine, with a higher percentage of hybrids. They're very happy.