K-Lite has been around a few years now... updates?

[Bjorn]

Perhaps I should add my experiences to this as well? I used k-lite solely at a concentration of 3-400ppmTDS (I am fertigating i.e. this concentration in all water) for a whole season and got good results except for the leaves gettingincreasingly yellowish.

Next year I intermixed with an urea foliar feed 50:50 at approximately same TDS (300ppm) and the leaf colors improved.

Then I decided to go for the foliar feed only(not as foliar feed but in the water) at approximately 100ppmTDS (gives some 20ppm N most urea) with Ca and Mg additions and frankly not much of a difference but perhaps a bit healthier plants?

Id did feel that the supply of some essential micros was getting a bit low, so this season I decided to make my own mix that had no urea, but loads of ammonium, a bit more potassium than k-lite but with an entirely different micro make up. E.g. Manganese is four to five times higher than in k-lite.
I am feeding now at approximately 60ppm TDS (5-10ppm N) and things have never been as trouble free and seemingly growing well. i must admit that I am using kelp additionally, perhaps once a month.

In my opinion, k-lite was a leap forward, but suffered from two weaknesses. Too litttle ammonium/urea and the micros are not sufficient or correctly balanced for paphs. Particularly manganese and boron could well be higher in my opinion. The most important outcome from my growing is perhaps the recognition (and this should be obvious, the plants are from nature accomodated to this) that orchids only need tiny amounts of fertiliser, if any, except what comes from the water. Barndom Tam from the Huntington collection wrote that they only feed with Ca-nitrate additional to what is in their water. And nobody can tell that they do not produce nice plants? Of course they could be blessed with good water, and those of you that use RO or distilled water should pay some extra attention to the micros. Most mixes have not a particulaly wide range of micros and that is one of the reasons why eg kelp is so beneficial, but generally the plants are better of with a low dose. Fertilise very weakly -always.

 

[Carper]

Following on from comments by Bjorn's and Chicago Stud, I have used the K-lite at various times in between using Akerne, which is an MSU equivalent of 13-3-15 with Calcium and Mg. I use RO water and have done so for a quite a few years so I can monitor what the plants are getting. I have had some excellent results with my mainly paph MF collection while using the Akerne but when I use the K-Lite, the effects of yellowing of the leaves is very apparent in a short space of time. There doesn't seem any improvement in root growth either so I revert back to Akerne and consider adding other elements like Epson Salts to correct the situation. For me in the UK the main difference to most is the amount of light which is short in winter and temp levels. I feed around the 200 u/S in winter weekly and max of 600 u/S through summer. My recent observations are my plants seem to grow better when feed was around the 400 u/S mark. Foliage and roots were growing well and with increasing light/temp levels at this time of year the plants had that spurt of growth. The only thing I've noticed as I do have some very large paphs with multiple growths, is the flower count on some are lower than I would expect. Rather than increase the feed strength which is what I was doing, I now incorporate Dyna Grow Bloom feed at the same strengths around once per month as an alternative to see if this makes any difference. I have a number of phals which have been in flower for a good few months now and have given these the same treatment. I have noticed further flower production and multi-spiking on these in just few months treatment which is interesting. The effect on the paphs won't be noticeable obviously until they bloom. I do use triacontanol which I have done for a number years now and it has definitely helped the plants apparently photosynthesize at lower light levels which helps us in the UK. I also been using the foliar feed version which is also making good improvements in the foliage. My medium are the varying grades of orchiata with a bit of added perlite or foam and always "pot on"so as not to disturb the root system.

With recent use of K-lite and it's now happened quite a few times I still look for alternatives and was looking at Mono-ammonium phosphate. What application rate to use and this will be on a few selected plants to begin with I would appreciate comments on. I may incorporate Seaweed Extract to this aswell.

Gary
UK

 

[jtrmd]

Chris if you want my feedback please message me.

I started to have some of the same issues after a good start with it. I switched back to my old fertilizer, after using what I bought, and repotting this spring. I thought I was the only one having issues until you mentioned it. I suppose the old saying,'' what works for one person, doesn't mean it will work for you''. I suppose my mix (bark based, and city water) didn't want to cooperate.

 

[Marco]

Chad / Tom K. - When you were using K-lite did you use purely K-lite? Or did you any additives with the k-lite? Did you foliar feed or spray/water the roots directly?

Naoki - Agreed the information on this forum is invaluable. It allows folks to be as informed as possible before making decisions especially away from something thats been working for them.

 

[gonewild]

Question to growers that noticed poor(er) growth with K-lite or yellowing leaves....

Did you notice any difference in disease or pest problems during the time you used K-lite?

 

[myxodex]

I haven't used Klite, but I have somewhat reduced K.
I have switched to a high N: low K homemade food inspired by the low K idea. My paphs, mainly barbata types, are definately happier. Part of this I suspect is the lower NH4 component of the N, and therefore easier control of progressive acidification of potting mix which was a problem for me. However, I've also switched to orchiata and I now think that my former bark was just nasty. So although I haven't been using Klite, and I haven't controlled any experiments, and changed a whole bunch of things at the same time, I am convinced that my paphs, at least, don't require the high K levels as in MSU and some other formulations. I use a NPK 7:1:1 formulation, so more K to N than Klite, because it is unclear to me whether plants on Klite + RO water can actually use all the N given to them due to S limitation.

I now begin to suspect that some of my other orchids might need a bit more K. My Neos and mounted Aerangis species have not been quite as as happy on this. The issue is not how they grow in the summer so much but their robustness during their winter dormancy. It seems that on the high N : low K diet during summer growth season they then seem to need more water during the winter dormancy than before, else they become shrivelled, this is new to me. Before switching to NPK 7:1:1, I used to give both these types a few (dilute) waterings of a bloom food (high PK) at the end of the growth season (October) and then nothing but light mistings of water twice a week from mid-to-late November right through to mid April or until I saw root growth. I got this idea from a more experienced grower years ago who said that the high PK ("bloom") ferts "harden" the plants for dormancy. After reading the MSU and Klite motivations about low P and low K respectively, I became convinced that the bloom food idea was nonsense and I stopped the pre-dormancy "hardening feed". Now I'm not so sure anymore, not about blooming per se, but about the dry dormancy. My aerangis, although not the neos, seem to have become less routine about their dormancy, sort of stop/start messing about until Feb or even March, as though they are reluctant to enter dormancy and then the spring flush of growth is less pronounced and vigorous than it was before. It would make a certain amount of sense that certain epiphytic orchids might need and accumulate more K if they have to deal with a dry season given that K is a major plant osmolyte.

 

[Ray]

Some very interesting observations here.

My own great experience with K-Lite with my entire collection - paphs, phrags, catts, oncids, encyclias, vandaceous of all sorts, including neos, phals, pleurothallids, etc. - may indicate that my supplementation with KelpMax and Inocucor Garden Solution is "filling in some blanks". The "bugs" in the IGS may be making some otherwise trapped nutrients available.

 

[tomkalina]

Lance - Didn't notice any disease or pest problems while using K-Lite; just the yellowing leaves and a general slowing of growth in Paph/Phrag compots and seedlings.

Marco - I used K-Lite dissolved in RO water for about a year at 15-20 ppm [N]. Every fourth watering, I flushed the pots with straight Chicago (Lake Michigan) water which had a TDS of 220 ppm, for the micro-nutrients. During that time I noticed a gradual yellowing of non-Parvi Paph. leaves and Phrag. leaves - especially besseae and it's hybrids. Prior to K-Lite , I fertilized with Miracid 30-10-10 (which is urea based) at a 70 ppm [N]. After discussing besseae culture with ST'er "John M" I began alternated the 30-10-10 with 10-52-10 which is also urea based, and achieved the best plant growth I've seen in a couple of years.

General Observation - There's an old saying in orchid culture - "What works for you works for you". I've seen glorious growth in both Paphs and Phrags under conditions that I would consider sub-standard and poor growth in conditions I'd consider optimal. The best growing occurred when cultural conditions were not constantly changing. Decide on a mix, a fertilizer, a watering schedule and a growing area that has a decent amount of light, humidity and good air movement and let the plants do their thing. It's what I've heard people call "benign neglect".

 

[gonewild]

Lance - Didn't notice any disease or pest problems while using K-Lite; just the yellowing leaves and a general slowing of growth in Paph/Phrag compots and seedlings.

Did you notice any less disease (rot) while using low K.

I used K-Lite dissolved in RO water for about a year at 15-20 ppm [N]. Every fourth watering, I flushed the pots with straight Chicago (Lake Michigan) water which had a TDS of 220 ppm, for the micro-nutrients.

In my opinion that is no where near enough nutrients to keep the plants growing and green assuming you have a good strong growing environment. I think you would have seen green leaves had you applied 15-20ppm with every watering. Or even higher rates in line with the other formulas you use. Low doses of nutrients only support plant growth when they are in constant supply. Basically applying the low dose with only 25% of the waterings means your plants are trying to grow without nutrients 75% of the time. This is true no matter what your fertilizer nutrient ratio is.

 

[TyroneGenade]

I have been using K-lite for just over a year and the plants are still green. Those dose a is 50 ppm N (1/3 tsp in 1 gal). I grow semi-hydroponic. In summer the plants stand in the K-lite and are misted daily. In winter they stand in RO and get misted with K-lite every day.

The only exceptions to the generally good growth are a spicerianum that seems to be going backwards. My roth and St Swithin also seems to be stagnating. It grows new leaves but only at the expense of an old leaf. The roth is also a bit yellow. Perhaps it needs a higher dose? The roth gets a lot of sun so perhaps it is pale because it has ample light?

Ray, the idea of the KelpMax to supplement is a good idea.

 

[consettbay2003]

I have been using K-lite for just over a year and the plants are still green. Those dose a is 50 ppm N (1/3 tsp in 1 gal). I grow semi-hydroponic. In summer the plants stand in the K-lite and are misted daily. In winter they stand in RO and get misted with K-lite every day.

The only exceptions to the generally good growth are a spicerianum that seems to be going backwards. My roth and St Swithin also seems to be stagnating. It grows new leaves but only at the expense of an old leaf. The roth is also a bit yellow. Perhaps it needs a higher dose? The roth gets a lot of sun so perhaps it is pale because it has ample light?

Ray, the idea of the KelpMax to supplement is a good idea.

My problems with the exclusive use of K-Lite started to occur after one year.
It wasn't pretty.

 

[phraggy]

Following on from comments by Bjorn's and Chicago Stud, I have used the K-lite at various times in between using Akerne, which is an MSU equivalent of 13-3-15 with Calcium and Mg. I use RO water and have done so for a quite a few years so I can monitor what the plants are getting. I have had some excellent results with my mainly paph MF collection while using the Akerne but when I use the K-Lite, the effects of yellowing of the leaves is very apparent in a short space of time. There doesn't seem any improvement in root growth either so I revert back to Akerne and consider adding other elements like Epson Salts to correct the situation. For me in the UK the main difference to most is the amount of light which is short in winter and temp levels. I feed around the 200 u/S in winter weekly and max of 600 u/S through summer. My recent observations are my plants seem to grow better when feed was around the 400 u/S mark. Foliage and roots were growing well and with increasing light/temp levels at this time of year the plants had that spurt of growth. The only thing I've noticed as I do have some very large paphs with multiple growths, is the flower count on some are lower than I would expect. Rather than increase the feed strength which is what I was doing, I now incorporate Dyna Grow Bloom feed at the same strengths around once per month as an alternative to see if this makes any difference. I have a number of phals which have been in flower for a good few months now and have given these the same treatment. I have noticed further flower production and multi-spiking on these in just few months treatment which is interesting. The effect on the paphs won't be noticeable obviously until they bloom. I do use triacontanol which I have done for a number years now and it has definitely helped the plants apparently photosynthesize at lower light levels which helps us in the UK. I also been using the foliar feed version which is also making good improvements in the foliage. My medium are the varying grades of orchiata with a bit of added perlite or foam and always "pot on"so as not to disturb the root system.

With recent use of K-lite and it's now happened quite a few times I still look for alternatives and was looking at Mono-ammonium phosphate. What application rate to use and this will be on a few selected plants to begin with I would appreciate comments on. I may incorporate Seaweed Extract to this aswell.

Gary
UK

Was going to ask the same question Gary. Anyone on the other side of the pond tried using phosphate of ammonia.?? Does it help the roots to take up nutrients??

Ed

 

[papheteer]

I too had problems with using K-lite and RO water. My plants seriously became bleached. Crushed oyster shells made things worse.

I've been using pure urea and 30-10-10 urea based exclusively (with tap water) for at least a year now. I am happy with the results. I do supplement with Kelp (Kelpmax from Ray and Seaplex), fulvic, humic, and amino acids. I also used to adjust my pH close to 6.5 with phosphoric acid but I haven't in a while. Plants don't seem to mind.

I do try to go light on K whenever I can. I do believe it makes a difference.

I did have problems with orchiata as well but now that i'm using Urea, and watering more often, plants in it are growing like crazy.

I think it's the combination of K-lite (lack of ammonium N)my tap water, and underwatering (and the lime in orchiata) that made it not work for me.

 

[papheteer]

I must add one thing though. Root growth was better when I supplied some nitrate. Has anyone noticed this too? Is there any scientific explanation to this?

 

[Carper]

Question to growers that noticed poor(er) growth with K-lite or yellowing leaves....

Did you notice any difference in disease or pest problems during the time you used K-lite?

The odd plant, like a phrag besseae and a roth did seem to develop some browning on the leaves but this has since stopped. Apart from that I didn't notice any significant problems, however, the plants looked weaker and with the yellowing leaves it wasn't positive.

Gary
UK

 

[Carper]

I too had problems with using K-lite and RO water. My plants seriously became bleached. Crushed oyster shells made things worse.

I've been using pure urea and 30-10-10 urea based exclusively (with tap water) for at least a year now. I am happy with the results. I do supplement with Kelp (Kelpmax from Ray and Seaplex), fulvic, humic, and amino acids. I also used to adjust my pH close to 6.5 with phosphoric acid but I haven't in a while. Plants don't seem to mind.

I do try to go light on K whenever I can. I do believe it makes a difference.

I did have problems with orchiata as well but now that i'm using Urea, plants in it are growing like crazy.

I think it's the combination of K-lite (lack of ammonium N) and my tap water (and the lime in orchiata) that made it not work for me.

At what strength do you feed at and do you mix with the Kelp?

Gary
UK

 

[tomkalina]

Lance - I think you misunderstood; I was applying K-Lite three out of four waterings, then flushing with tap water on the fourth watering for the micros. Since returning to the 30-10-10, etc. regimen at the equivalent of 1/4 tsp/gal, my observed growth rate has improved and the leaves are a darker green. If you do the math, 1/4 tsp/gal of 30-10-10 gives you an equivalent of approx 70 ppm [N]. Hard to describe and subjective, but the plants just look like they're doing better. Can't see any effect of alternating 30-10-10 with the 10-52-10 fert yet, because it's been only a couple of waterings with the product. And I've seen no increase in diseases or insects since the change to a urea based fertilizer.

 

[theshatterings]

I have somewhat similar experiences with Bjorn and I think K-lite definitely improved the hobbyist orchid nutrition experience a great deal. Hopefully all these comments will help when K-lite 2.0 is released : D

I grow mostly phals in 100% NZ sphagnum, with the exception of cochlearis and gigantea which are in a mix that I'm growing paphs in (orchiata, perlite, charcoal). Without the low K, algae growth using 100% moss at home would have been a total pain. For paphs, I'm only growing multifloral species at the moment: lowii, sanderianum, rothschildianum, stonei and kolopakingii.

I've been using K-lite for about two years consistently at ~10 ppmN at every watering in RO water. Although I didn't see much growth, all my plants were still totally fine. In the past six months, I made a small change thanks to the discussions here by adding back 10% of our municipal water and I have seen a marked improvement since. We get a yearly report on water quality and even though our water supply is really hard, there are definitely a lot other additional micros in there when used at an average of ~50 ppmTDS with ~10 ppmN K-lite. I'm actually thinking of cutting K-lite back a little further to keep the final TDS below 100 ppm. The only additive I add is a drop or two of Superthrive (when I remember) just for a bit of NAA action.

Here's a group pic of how my paphs are doing with this regiment.

 

[gonewild]

Lance - I think you misunderstood; I was applying K-Lite three out of four waterings, then flushing with tap water on the fourth watering for the micros. Since returning to the 30-10-10, etc. regimen at the equivalent of 1/4 tsp/gal, my observed growth rate has improved and the leaves are a darker green. If you do the math, 1/4 tsp/gal of 30-10-10 gives you an equivalent of approx 70 ppm [N]. Hard to describe and subjective, but the plants just look like they're doing better. Can't see any effect of alternating 30-10-10 with the 10-52-10 fert yet, because it's been only a couple of waterings with the product. And I've seen no increase in diseases or insects since the change to a urea based fertilizer.

Yes Tom I did misunderstand, I reversed your times.
Don't misunderstand I'm not defending K-lite with my comments. What I was saying had nothing to do with the K.
When your plants were yellow on K-lite they were getting as little as 15ppm of N. Then you switched to 30-10-10 and now they get 70ppm of N. That's over 4 times more N now. My thought is if you had increased the K-lite to 70ppm they would have greened up and grew better because of the nutrient increase......
I'm not convinced that the low nutrient doses are the best way to grow. Most of the poor results seem like they are coupled to low ppm applications and or nitrate/ammonia issues and not the low K.
The idea with the K-lite formula was a test to see the effect of reducing the K content. So the unanswered question in the poor results is it because of the lack of K or the lack of ammonia N.

I don't use K-lite, I make my own formulas using nitrates and ammonia. Increasing the ammonia defiantly causes a growth flush and greens up the foliage compared to mostly Nitrate. What I do see is an increase in leaf disease issues with the ammonia combined with higher K levels as compared to nitrates and low K. I've also repeatedly applied high rates of K and when I do it is like turning on bacterial rot symptoms. When I reduce the K the symptoms stop, increase the K and symptoms start again.

I'm curious why people have reduced the nutrient doses for K-lite down to 20ppm from 100ppm? K-lite already had a huge reduction in P and K.

Is it the low K or low total nutrient dose that is giving poor results to some people?

 

[tomkalina]

Lance,

Thanks for the clarification. Based on our results, I agree that low nutrient levels may not be the best way to optimize ex-vitro orchid culture. I visited Hausermann's Orchids in Villa Park, IL this March, and saw some of the largest, best looking Parvi's (both species and hybrids, but especially Paph. malipoense) that I'd ever seen. I asked Jim Hausermann a lot of questions re: their culture and he said they were fertilizing with a urea based fertilizer at a [N] of 170 ppm (!) and a TDS close to 500 ppm (!!!) This is certainly contrary to the low-dose direction, regardless of natural habitat conditions. And yet the plants looked beautiful..... When asked whether they had done any testing of low K fertilizers, he said they had done so on their Phalaenopsis and the result was yellowing of the leaves and shorter flower stems, so they discontinued the use of the product.

Growing slipper orchids is an art, although there is some science involved - especially regarding water quality and fertilization. The best growers have an intuitive sense of what their plants need, and spend more time analyzing than changing their cultural practices. If your plants are growing well, don't mess with them. Back in the day when I was doing talks on slipper orchid culture, I always told my audience that if they were growing their Paphs well, for God's sake don't go home and change everything around based on my talk - you will be disappointed with the results. Slipper orchid culture is not seven different environmental factors that can be separated and modified individually to achieve a particular goal, because when one is modified it changes the dynamic of all the others. It's an extremely complex interaction, and the reason why many enthusiasts, impatient to see growth improvement, change things too frequently and fail.