Leucochilum

[kiwi]

I made a sib cross of my black leucochilums last year and they are just sprouting in the lab. I hope they bloom 2 years out of flasks too!! Any secret?

I got a flask of black ones from the same supplier and have a first flower almost open. I will post soon.

 

[kiwi]

I made a sib cross of my black leucochilums last year and they are just sprouting in the lab. I hope they bloom 2 years out of flasks too!! Any secret?

I keep these at a minimum of 18oC and try not to overwater.

 

[kiwi]

extremely beautiful . Some of your flowers are even better than the FCC Leucochilum/godefroyae from Krull Smith in the past . Obviously this cross is outstanding as other recent crosses , I wonder whether YY acquired any of the parent stud plants from Thai's breeders. One of the famous ones comes to mind is the famous Joe . By the way this species is my favorite paph as well. I currently have 38 leucochilum and godefroyae in collection, if I have to keep just a few plants, they definitely a must .

Thanks Hien. I will definitely be keeping all of these.

 

[DrLeslieEe]

I got a flask of black ones from the same supplier and have a first flower almost open. I will post soon.

Wow can't wait. Also same period of growth?

 

[kiwi]

E

Wow can't wait. Also same period of growth?

xa the same

 

[kiwi]

E

xa the same

Exactly

 

[Hien]

I made a sib cross of my black leucochilums last year and they are just sprouting in the lab. I hope they bloom 2 years out of flasks too!! Any secret?

I would love to see the photos of your two black leucochilum parents , could you post them ?

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Here are the parents of my sib cross of my black leucochilums:



Paph. leucochilum 'Black Beauty' JC/AOS (bottom pic) x Paph. leucochilum 'Freckled Pouch' (top pic).

What's interesting is that the 'black color in them are actually very dark magenta or dark brown that layers on top of each other multiple times until it looks black in certain lights and angles. That's why in this breeding line, solid 'reds' also occur.

 

[GuRu]

Thanks. So if there is even one spot on the pouch are they godefroye? ......

Exactly, that's what the description means. Only on this base you could create a new varity. You can't count spots and say until X spots its leucochilum and more than X spots it's godefroyae.

 

[GuRu]

Here are the parents of my sib cross of my black leucochilums godefroyaes:
Paph. leucochilum godefroyae 'Black Beauty' JC/AOS (bottom pic) x Paph. leucochilum godefroyae'Freckled Pouch' (top pic).

Leslie, sorry to say this in your case, too. They both are beauties but they aren't var. leucochilum but Paph. godefroyae.

 

[kiwi]

Here are the parents of my sib cross of my black leucochilums:

View attachment 25165View attachment 25166

Paph. leucochilum 'Black Beauty' JC/AOS (bottom pic) x Paph. leucochilum 'Freckled Pouch' (top pic).

What's interesting is that the 'black color in them are actually very dark magenta or dark brown that layers on top of each other multiple times until it looks black in certain lights and angles. That's why in this breeding line, solid 'reds' also occur.

These are amazing

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Leslie, sorry to say this in your case, too. They both are beauties but they aren't var. leucochilum but Paph. godefroyae.

Rudolf, I understand the reasoning behind the definition of leucochilum, where the delineation from gofefroyae is a spotless pouch.

However as far as I know, the dark black 'leucochilums' come from direct pure white pouched leucochilums. As a result of this heritage, the names were maintained to reflect this lineage.

Since leucochilum is a 'distinct' species from godefroyae based on current taxonomy and Kew checklist, the name has been maintained in this line breeding, eventhough it obviously does not fit the initial original description of this species.

It is my thinking that this definition must be revisited by today's taxonomists to broaden it to reflect current breeding. One cannot simply renamed a leucochilum line into another species by virtue of these selectively bred traits.

For the record, I myself think they are the same species with varying amounts of color in their pouches. You see, not all pure white pouched leucochilums breed 100% pure white pouches. Nor do all godefeoyaes never produce pure white pouched offspring.

Therein lies the dilemma that will forever be a moot point in these kinds of discussions, until a taxonomic review clears these distinctions between these two species.

 

[GuRu]

Rudolf, I understand the reasoning behind the definition of leucochilum, where the delineation from gofefroyae is a spotless pouch.
However as far as I know, the dark black 'leucochilums' come from direct pure white pouched leucochilums. As a result of this heritage, the names were maintained to reflect this lineage.
Since leucochilum is a 'distinct' species from godefroyae based on current taxonomy and Kew checklist, the name has been maintained in this line breeding, eventhough it obviously does not fit the initial original description of this species.
It is my thinking that this definition must be revisited by today's taxonomists to broaden it to reflect current breeding. One cannot simply renamed a leucochilum line into another species by virtue of these selectively bred traits.
For the record, I myself think they are the same species with varying amounts of color in their pouches. You see, not all pure white pouched leucochilums breed 100% pure white pouches. Nor do all godefeoyaes never produce pure white pouched offspring.
Therein lies the dilemma that will forever be a moot point in these kinds of discussions, until a taxonomic review clears these distinctions between these two species.

Leslie, I understand your thoughts and some of them I carry in my mind, too. I'm no taxonomist I just pointed at the problem. I also kwow that many breeders/vendor use the name 'leucochilum' very 'easy' without beeing aware what it means in the sense of the desription. But what I think to know is....you never could let judged your plants as Paph. godefroyae var. leucochilum but only as Paph. godefroyae.

 

[Ozpaph]

I have no idea how you flower these 2-3 years from flask - amazing.
All tips appreciated.

 

[kiwi]

I have no idea how you flower these 2-3 years from flask - amazing.
All tips appreciated.

I think they are just very vigorous. I keep them at a minimum of 18oC and use k-lite at around 20ppm N at every watering. I think they like to be kept moist but not soaked.

 

[Justin]

Here are the parents of my sib cross of my black leucochilums:

View attachment 25165View attachment 25166

Paph. leucochilum 'Black Beauty' JC/AOS (bottom pic) x Paph. leucochilum 'Freckled Pouch' (top pic).

What's interesting is that the 'black color in them are actually very dark magenta or dark brown that layers on top of each other multiple times until it looks black in certain lights and angles. That's why in this breeding line, solid 'reds' also occur.

Amazing. Will you keep all your flasks?

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Amazing. Will you keep all your flasks?

Depends on how many flasks I get. Germination rate is low unfortunately.

Also, most flasks are already on waiting list.

Please standby.

 

[Ozpaph]

what mix are you using? watering schedule?

 

[kiwi]

what mix are you using? watering schedule?

I use kiwi bark (seedling grade), perlite, and clay balls at a ratio of 4:1:1. Watering on average is every 2 days.

 

[kiwi]

I would love to see the photos of your two black leucochilum parents , could you post them ?

I cant find the photos of the parents but they were both the same as this.