Mommy dearest!

[Shiva]

A new family living under my balcony. The yellow-orange one tells me the father was that blond cat visiting my property earlier this spring. He disappeared suddenly, I guess after getting his way with the lady. The picture could be better, but I didn't want to scare the cats off while they fed.

 

[nikv]

Aw, how cute!

 

[SlipperFan]

Cute kitties. Are they tame?

 

[likespaphs]

feral?
is there a trap/neuter/release up there?

 

[Justin]

they can become a nuisance...suggest engaging a local group to have them spayed before a colony is established.

 

[Shiva]

I live in an agricultural areas so we have both feral and domestic cats around. The population is stable and they do a good job of controlling the rodent population so there is no need to neuter them. I had a different family last year and by spring, they all moved to a different territory. These new kittens will probably spend winter around the house and I usually treat them with left over meat. They eat absolutely everything. So less garbage to roll out on the curb.
Winter is very hard here so not all cats will survive into spring.
Earlier this week, I saw mom followed by her four kittens showing them a safe way to drink in the river that runs beside my house. In a month or so, she'll probably be gone leaving them to fend for themselves.

 

[likespaphs]

i understand what you're saying, but they are an invasive organism
i like cats and would not want to see them culled, but they destroy bird and other native varmit populations

 

[Shiva]

i understand what you're saying, but they are an invasive organism
i like cats and would not want to see them culled, but they destroy bird and other native varmit populations

In an environment where most predators have been killed off, cats are the only ones left to keep small animal populations in check. As for birds, there is no lack of them here. If you say you like cats, then you have to understand that eating birds and small rodents is what they do in nature. They didn't evolve to eat food in cans. The real world is not Walt Disney. Predators eat the weak and the foolish, allowing their preys to remain strong on the larger scale. And finally, I'd rather have cats around the house than rats gnawing at the wood inside my walls àt 2 AM in the morning in the winter.

 

[ohio-guy]

I have a different perspective than you do. The cats we introduced here are not native (and neither are the rats that came with the europeans) and while it may be "natural" for cats to hunt birds and vermin, this is not their natural environment, so the local native birds are not their natural prey. Native songbirds have declined markedly in recent years in the US (and Canada), and feral cats are a big part of the problem. Feral cats that succumb to the "harsh environment" are also an indication that the environment is not really a natural one for them. I don't think it is doing them any "kindness" to let them live out a short life, eeking out an existence as marginal feral animals decimating a natural population of songbirds and small rodents and reproducing uncontrolled to keep the cycle going. Neuter and release programs can at least reduce the feral population a little, and keep from introducing more kittens into the cycle. So far as the rodents that get into our houses, our indoor pet cats can keep them in check.
I am not meaning this as a personal attack about your feelings on the matter, just trying to give a different view point.

 

[Shiva]

I have a different perspective than you do. The cats we introduced here are not native (and neither are the rats that came with the europeans) and while it may be "natural" for cats to hunt birds and vermin, this is not their natural environment, so the local native birds are not their natural prey. Native songbirds have declined markedly in recent years in the US (and Canada), and feral cats are a big part of the problem. Feral cats that succumb to the "harsh environment" are also an indication that the environment is not really a natural one for them. I don't think it is doing them any "kindness" to let them live out a short life, eeking out an existence as marginal feral animals decimating a natural population of songbirds and small rodents and reproducing uncontrolled to keep the cycle going. Neuter and release programs can at least reduce the feral population a little, and keep from introducing more kittens into the cycle. So far as the rodents that get into our houses, our indoor pet cats can keep them in check.
I am not meaning this as a personal attack about your feelings on the matter, just trying to give a different view point.

Cats can't fly! So the birds they catch are either dead, sick or careless. Predators are there to eliminate the weak, which maintains the whole bird population in top shape. Same for mice and so on. That's a sign of ecological health. And I personnally don't see any decline of birds around here, song birds or otherwise, and any decline in their population would probably be a consequence of people moving endlessly into their territory. Every spring and fall they (the birds) come by the tens of thousands to feed in the fields behind my house. As for my cats taking care of the local rodents, forget it! They are aristocats . They only eat the best food man can produce for them. No rats or mice on their menu, ever. Better use mouse or rat traps, and throw the dead bodies outside for normal cats to eat.:evil:

And don't we like to accuse others of our sins? I've been told that a seal overpopulation is responsible for the near disparition of cods in the Atlantic. Funny, but before Europeans came to the Grand Banks, there were seals and cods in the gazillions.

And I don't take your comments as personnal. I don't feel that important in the grand scheme of things.

 

[likespaphs]

we're gonna have to agree to disagree
except on the following:

aren't slipper orchids grand?!

 

[SlipperFan]

Interesting, we are talking about overpopulation of cats, seals, rodents, etc, but the real overpopulation is with humans. Now I'll get off my soapbox...

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

Predators are not "there" for anything....unless you are into some kind of biblical mindset. Ecosystems evolve, with a mix of prey and predators. In undisturbed systems, they balance out. Feral cats are not a part of any New World ecosystem, nor are they parts of any ecosystems outside of areas where their ancestral wild ancestors occurred- Europe, central Asia, and northern Africa. Feral cats are considered among the worst of invasive species in many areas. Now, I am the first person to say that "alien" species do NOT equal "invasive", in and of itself, and in many cases, alien species have fit into new ecosystems harmlessly...just look at European pigeons in US cities. But cats are very destructive. You are in Canada...and feral cats may very well be competing successfully against your native foxes and Mustelids, not to mention lynx and bobcat.

 

[Ruth]

but the real overpopulation is with humans

AMEN!

 

[bullsie]

A new family living under my balcony. The yellow-orange one tells me the father was that blond cat visiting my property earlier this spring. He disappeared suddenly, I guess after getting his way with the lady. The picture could be better, but I didn't want to scare the cats off while they fed.

Since male cats range about in search of ladies, the likelyhood is that the blond cat has died. The elements and illnesses can take a heavy toll. But in North America there are quite a bit of native creatures that dine on cat. Where you live Shiva the lynx, bobcat, owls, fishers, bears, hawks and if you have coyote and wolves, would all make an easy meal of felines. Did I mention foxes that will take them out of barns, sheds, off windowsills, and closed in porches?

Male cats live a short life. Their ladies and offspring live much the same short life. We see feral cats regularly because people throw cats out regularly. It's not a life they choose, its the one humans give them. Most feral populations succeed where humans live in abundance. But even so, the turn-around of individuals is quite quick. I feel sad for the kitties. Its a shame their owner didn't think of them as living feeling creatures instead of disposable garbage.

 

[Shiva]

I can understand all you points, and even share some, but cats came along to America on the very same ships our forefathers (and mothers) did. Does that make us invasive as well? Every species is by nature invasive, if given the chance. I agree their lives are short in the wild, everywhere they live in the world, which is why they have so many offsprings. As for lynx, coyotes and other predators of cats, there are none where I live. Maybe in the boreal forest up north, but not here. Their greatest ''predator'' here is the automobile. Yes, they have a hard life, but it's the same for predators everywhere. In cities and suburbs where there is a lot more to feed on, more cats survive and can become a pest, and programs to catch and neuter them are wise. And last, let's not forget we are the apex predator, we multiply in vast numbers too and may meet the same fate of eeking a living if we keep pushing our environment to the brink. And we have been lucky for the few last thousand years. Every now and then, though, on larger time scales, our world and universe show ample capacities to write us off... Despite our immense arrogance, it wouldn't take much to send our civilization into chaos and possibly oblivion. And I'd bet cats would survive! :evil:

 

[bullsie]

I'm pretty sure if you ask any Native American they would agree that the bulk of us here are invasive! Either way, as humans, we should take our responsibilities seriously. Unfortunately, that will never come. Even the criminal doesn't blame his actions for imprisonment. We will always blame everything and everyone else down to extinction.

Shiva, how did you manage few predators where you are at? Hadn't I heard of Montreal - a few miles south of you - having fox problems?

 

[Shiva]

I'm pretty sure if you ask any Native American they would agree that the bulk of us here are invasive! Either way, as humans, we should take our responsibilities seriously. Unfortunately, that will never come. Even the criminal doesn't blame his actions for imprisonment. We will always blame everything and everyone else down to extinction.

Shiva, how did you manage few predators where you are at? Hadn't I heard of Montreal - a few miles south of you - having fox problems?

The short answer is maybe they are around but I've never seen one since I moved here 15 years ago. I know there are deer, and lots of migratory birds stop here twice a year. It's possible that there are some foxes south of Montreal. The area is much more wooded as we near the american border and then there are the mountains to the south.
My guess is that our own true wildlife is up north in the Laurantian mountains. There are many and some major roads going east and west in my area that can constitute significant barriers to wildlife.

 

[Shiva]

we're gonna have to agree to disagree
except on the following:

aren't slipper orchids grand?!

Slippers are the most invasive of all, as far as I am concerned. But that's an invasion I will promote and enjoy to my death bed. :drool:

 

[ohio-guy]

Talking about Europeans being invasive made me remember a book I heard of recently. I believe it is called 1492 (or maybe 1493?) and it chronicles the changes to the Americas after the colonization by Europeans. Things you would never even think of had impact, like European earthworms ( apparently native worms were non existent after the glacier periods, and the new earthworms changed the structure of the forest ground litter affecting the undergrowth...). And so far as the human population, it is estimated we wiped out up to 90% of the indigenous peoples with our diseases mostly.
But you have a point that any species can be considered exploitive of new environments. And even the indigenous peoples here came from else where too, albeit thousands of years earlier, and no doubt had their own impact of the "New World".