Orchids 2023

[DrLeslieEe]

Yeah the ventral sepals split on almost all the flowers. It didn't used to do this. Maybe from being potbound?

Yes I saw the synsepal split.

But that doesn’t fall into peloric definition (petals or sepals look like lip).

 

[big923cattleya]

You do not have ventral sepals on a Paphiopedilum, it is dorsal sepal, petals, synsepal and pouch (or lip). It is my understanding that the synsepal rarely splits. Some develop a cleft at the tip but I would not call that a split.
I also figured peloric meant that the two petals are mimicking the lip. Commonly seen in Cattleyas, less so in Phalaenopsis. I can’t think of anything remotely peloric in a slipper orchid.
Perhaps you are thinking of a different trait and not peloric?

 

[Justin]

Thanks. If you look at the first two photos, you can see the split synsepal on the nearest flower.

 

[spujr]

I had this happen to one of my roths this year. I think it happens in early flower development where the next bud gets caught between the first bud. I'm not describing this well but not sure how to better explain. I believe some genotypes are more susceptible to this condition than others but can be helped by an unknown environmental factor.

 

[annica.jarvela]

Yes, they happen at the early stages when a bud is forming. There isn't anything wrong with the plant, peloric or something else. The plant is healthy, it is reproductive etc. It could have something to do with changes in fertilizer or your water, but it doesn't have to be. It just happens for some reason and the flowers are still beautiful. Justin, you can also think it this way; You have a very special philippinense, that no one else has, and be proud of it! ❤

 

[Guldal]

But that doesn’t fall into peloric definition (petals or sepals look like lip).

No, it's rather more within the the definition of mishap!

 

[DirGo]

I had a slightly different view on peloric... I more agree with Justin's usage.
(ref. wikipedia and many others sources) Pelorism is the term, said to be first used by Charles Darwin, for the formation of 'peloric flowers' which botanically is the abnormal production of radially symmetrical (actinomorphic) flowers in a species that usually produces bilaterally symmetrical (zygomorphic) flowers.
Meaning that any deformation that bring the flower from a billateral to a radial symmetry mutant is considered peloric.
Agreed, most commonly in slippers, it are petal / lip deformations that are validly called peloric, but in my opinion this term is not exclusive to changes in the petals. In case of a split synsepalum, this also brings the flower sepals back to radial symmetry, so in my opinion this could also fall under the same definition peloric.
Maybe a botanist can prove me right or wrong...

 

[DrLeslieEe]

A split synsepal is still bilateral symmetry nonetheless, is it not?

Also… Since the pouch and petals are still not radial symmetry by definition?

 

[eds]

If they had also changed form and had consistent striping like the dorsal so that the three sepals had become more identical to create that radial symmetry then you could make that case, but a simple split wouldn't in my book.

However, I also think the term is stretched in orchids where colouration is on all petals but the form isn't changed like some peloric Cattleyas.
A quick Google found this,

Nice colour pattern, but you can hardly say it's radially symmetrical as those two upper petals are definitely not lips like the bottom one!

 

[tnyr5]

Pelorism need not be complete. It's just a regression.

 

[Theodoreorchidking]

View attachment 39866
View attachment 39867

What lights do you use? Would these be adequate for low light areas in my house thanks

 

[Justin]

What lights do you use? Would these be adequate for low light areas in my house thanks

Hi! I use 65 watt board LEDs on the top shelves, and on the lower I have 4' 38 watt strip LEDs from The Orchid Hobbyist on facebook.

https://horticulturelightinggroup.com/products/hlg-65

 

[annica.jarvela]

[QUOTE="big923cattleya, post: 752545, member:
I also figured peloric meant that the two petals are mimicking the lip. Commonly seen in Cattleyas, less so in Phalaenopsis. I can’t think of anything remotely peloric in a slipper orchid.
Perhaps you are thinking of a different trait and not peloric?
[/QUOTE]

As you said, common in Cattleyas, but there are been sold several Phaelonopsis too with peloric lips etc. Or atleast that is the concept or notion I've got.

 

[big923cattleya]

I did say less so in Phalaenopsis. I never said in Cattleyas and No Place Else.
I am not a breeder of Phalaenopsis and really up on everything genetically but I seem to recall some peloria coming out of a few clones of Phalaenopsis equestris if I am remembering correctly.

Edited to add:
I went on line to check something quick but in Cattleyas I always think of things like C. Prism Pallete when it comes to peloric flowers or Mohmalani Rainbow if I have that spelled correctly?
The peloria seen there comes from Cattleya intermedia var. ‘aquinii’.
From there selected clones showing more peloric tendencies were bred forward to enhance that feature.

 

[annica.jarvela]

I did say less so in Phalaenopsis. I never said in Cattleyas and No Place Else.
I am not a breeder of Phalaenopsis and really up on everything genetically but I seem to recall some peloria coming out of a few clones of Phalaenopsis equestris if I am remembering correctly.

Edited to add:
I went on line to check something quick but in Cattleyas I always think of things like C. Prism Pallete when it comes to peloric flowers or Mohmalani Rainbow if I have that spelled correctly?
The peloria seen there comes from Cattleya intermedia var. ‘aquinii’.
From there selected clones showing more peloric tendencies were bred forward to enhance that feature.

Dear big cattleya, I did not mean that you said only in Cattleyas, but less so in Phal. I meant that in both. But I don`t understand why a flower would be peloric just if it has the same color in its petals and/or sepals as in its lip. In my understanding peloric means that the petals are trying to mimic the lip. There are also flowers that look otherwise okay but have two (or more) lips. Does that count to Peloric? I would say it's just a mutation (two flowers have merged together). I had once an orange Lc. (?) which had two lips in one of its three flowers. It was incredibly beautiful. Perhaps I`ve just understood all this not correctly. My apologies if I did upset you, it wasn`t my meaning.

 

[big923cattleya]

Well the answer is a simple one annica. Your definition is very good. Peloric is when the petals mimic or look like the lip. They do not have to be exact copies of the lip.
You see it in Cattleyas where the lip say has a golden yellow disc or center and maybe some rich shade of amethyst or purple.
In the peloric flower you may just have some golden yellow color along the mid vein along with an amethyst ‘slash’, ‘stripe’ or ‘dart’ within the petals. It need not be, like I said, an exact duplicate of the lip.
Our judging system here features such terms as “slightly peloric” or a “hint of peloric” or being almost “exact copies of the lip”. We often seen those words in the descriptions of awarded flowers. Those words or terms are used back and forth among the orchid growing public.
I knew a lady once who grew nothing but peloric or slightly peloric Cattleyas!!!
Hope that I cleared this up for you.
Happy Growing.

 

[annica.jarvela]

Well the answer is a simple one annica. Your definition is very good. Peloric is when the petals mimic or look like the lip. They do not have to be exact copies of the lip.
You see it in Cattleyas where the lip say has a golden yellow disc or center and maybe some rich shade of amethyst or purple.
In the peloric flower you may just have some golden yellow color along the mid vein along with an amethyst ‘slash’, ‘stripe’ or ‘dart’ within the petals. It need not be, like I said, an exact duplicate of the lip.
Our judging system here features such terms as “slightly peloric” or a “hint of peloric” or being almost “exact copies of the lip”. We often seen those words in the descriptions of awarded flowers. Those words or terms are used back and forth among the orchid growing public.
I knew a lady once who grew nothing but peloric or slightly peloric Cattleyas!!!
Hope that I cleared this up for you.
Happy Growing.

Yes you did, thank you!
Happy Growing for you also.

 

[big923cattleya]

You are most welcome!
And don’t worry, I do not get upset when I am asked questions. I just love to talk things through so everyone understands.
It was my pleasure to help you!

 

[Justin]

Here's a second plant of 'Charles E' looking good...



Fourth spike on Phil 'Alford' opened normally

 

[annica.jarvela]

Charles E is looking great and phil. Alford has wonderful colors and beautiful flowers!