P K Photos from Isaias

[isaias m rolando]

Do all the clones seem to grow about the same a 'Laura'?
If you re-read the Orchid Digest Vol 67 (4) 2003, pags 248-255, you will find out that I was present at the time of the first legal collection with Alfredo Manrique`s permit. So I had the chance to see how were they looking the original plants. I remember how well they were handled since their collection to their arrival to a special greenhouse Mr Manrique had prepared in Lima. All this years they have been studied like alliens to this planet. With special care and trials, and some previous practical experience with other phrags and the permanent search for new formulas and habitat studies: soil, rock, mosses around, other plants, biochemical analysis of water and salt content, etc, etc, etc. Also the DNA studies were performed at University of Gainsville in Florida in a collaborative study. There is still a lot to be done and there are serious scientist all the world around that are willing to colaborate with peruvian scientist doing legal studies with PK and their hybrids. You may all agree that we need to work together with the law in our hands and try this planet and its natural wonder for the joy and profit of everybody, NOT FOR THE PROFIT OF A MINORITY IN THE BLACK MARKET. It is up to each one of you to decide what group are you going to support

 

[isaias m rolando]

What else is out there?

Very good question:
All I can report here is like in the 90's we were told "there was a "zapatito azul" in our jungle....and PK was discovered!...Now we heard already there is a mediun size butteryellow zapatito somewhere and there is a bright big zapatito in the south.east of Peruvian jungle....

 

[SlipperFan]

What else is out there?

Very good question:
All I can report here is like in the 90's we were told "there was a "zapatito azul" in our jungle....and PK was discovered!...Now we heard already there is a mediun size butteryellow zapatito somewhere and there is a bright big zapatito in the south.east of Peruvian jungle....

Oh my!!!
It must be exciting to live in Peru right now!

 

[isaias m rolando]

Want to see them in bloom this year?
Come for the Int Orchid Show in Lima next November (AOS Judges needed). If not in bloom here in Lima you will the ones in bloom in Moyobamba. Nº3 legal permit has been issued to Mr Lee Moore and he is growing his plants in Moyobamba, near the habitat...
before I forget, one more fact: Mr Manrique's plants were never divided until recently, that the clonal var "Laura" was divided into three big clumps. That is onemore reason why he was so succesful doing the hybrids and producing a lot of pollen for some of the crosses already in the market. Mr Moore will be welcomed to start his breeding program and probably he already has some seed pots after his legal collection last year.
After requesting INRENA for the situation of Nº 2 permit plants, the information available was that they never saw a single flower of these plants because the original plants were divided into many one new growth, so was dificult for them to flower...

 

[isaias m rolando]

Yes indeed. It is exciting to live here...but sad at the same time to see how the ilegal black market is searching all the time for "new material" to offer his clients. It is again as I said: the cocaine market exists because there are thousands of consumers to keep them bussy...Happened with P. besseae, just happened with PK...what's next? THE ONLY WAY TO STOP THIS IS NOT TO BUY FROM THE BLACK MARKET...

 

[toddybear]

As a neophyte to Phrags in general, I must say I am learning a lot about PK in the past couple of weeks (including how heated conversations can get!). On a related topic and just so that I am not longer ignorant, what is the current situation with P. besseae in the wild? Are there any wild populations left? If so, are they protected or still open to black market collectors...or has the novelty of PB worn off so that wild collections are no longer desireable (after all, that species is now quite common in cultivation). I know that Paph rothschildianum have been replanted in their native habitat on Mt. Kinabalu..any talks of doing that with PB? (I relalize the demand for PK would not make it practical for that species at the moment).

 

[gonewild]

Isaias,

Do the original legal plants collected remain always the property of INRENA?

I know with birds and animals collected from the jungle the original individuals remain forever the property of INRENA and the permitted caretakers are only allowed to sell the offspring. Is it the same with kovachii?

 

[Kyle]

On a related topic and just so that I am not longer ignorant, what is the current situation with P. besseae in the wild? Are there any wild populations left? If so, are they protected or still open to black market collectors...or has the novelty of PB worn off so that wild collections are no longer desireable (after all, that species is now quite common in cultivation).

In Ecuador, Phrag besseae numbers are stable to increasing. The plants neat the paute river in south central Ecuador are sometimes 'pouched'

Kyle

 

[gonewild]

Yes indeed. It is exciting to live here...but sad at the same time to see how the ilegal black market is searching all the time for "new material" to offer his clients. It is again as I said: the cocaine market exists because there are thousands of consumers to keep them bussy...Happened with P. besseae, just happened with PK...what's next? THE ONLY WAY TO STOP THIS IS NOT TO BUY FROM THE BLACK MARKET...

Actually the coca growers help to protect the habitat by making collecting plants in the areas very risky. So perhaps the illegal drug trade is good for the selva?

There is another way to stop the black market and that is for INRENA to open it's eyes.

 

[gonewild]

Do all the clones seem to grow about the same a 'Laura'?
If you re-read the Orchid Digest Vol 67 (4) 2003, pags 248-255, you will find out that I was present at the time of the first legal collection with Alfredo Manrique`s permit. So I had the chance to see how were they looking the original plants. I remember how well they were handled since their collection to their arrival to a special greenhouse Mr Manrique had prepared in Lima. All this years they have been studied like alliens to this planet. With special care and trials, and some previous practical experience with other phrags and the permanent search for new formulas and habitat studies: soil, rock, mosses around, other plants, biochemical analysis of water and salt content, etc, etc, etc. Also the DNA studies were performed at University of Gainsville in Florida in a collaborative study. There is still a lot to be done and there are serious scientist all the world around that are willing to colaborate with peruvian scientist doing legal studies with PK and their hybrids. You may all agree that we need to work together with the law in our hands and try this planet and its natural wonder for the joy and profit of everybody, NOT FOR THE PROFIT OF A MINORITY IN THE BLACK MARKET. It is up to each one of you to decide what group are you going to support

My question was... ¿Ve usted muchísimo la diferencia en el hábito de crecimiento entre las 5 plantas que fueron coleccionadas?

Do you see very much difference in growth habit between the 5 plants that were collected?

 

[Heather]

I read most of a LONG article on the deforestation of the Amazon today (in Nat'l Geog) and was thinking of Pk. the entire time. It was very interesting.

 

[Ron-NY]

I saw too much slash and burn areas when I was down there last fall and that was high jungle. There was very little original growth areas to see. It had all been logged starting in the 1800's. I didn't visit the low jungle. Lance, Isaias et al...is it any better in the low selva?

 

[gonewild]

What else is out there?

Very good question:
All I can report here is like in the 90's we were told "there was a "zapatito azul" in our jungle....and PK was discovered!...Now we heard already there is a mediun size butteryellow zapatito somewhere and there is a bright big zapatito in the south.east of Peruvian jungle....

Who has the nerve to admit to finding it? Talk about a nightmare!

 

[isaias m rolando]

Gonewild
The ilegal drug trade is not good for the selva. DEA is spraying with SPIKE, an herbicide that is killing not only coca fields but all the flora and fauna is in very bad shape after their spraying... and no, INRENA will not be a better way to stop the black market...until a few bad officers are removed for their "services" offered to one comercial grower...still around in the market in these days.
I am surprised nobody is comenting in the best way to stop black market: DO NOT SUPPORT THEM....

 

[TADD]

I don't think we are the problem (as in us the concerned growers of this forum)

 

[Heather]

"SPIKE"
An ironic name, no?

Seriously - this is exactly what was being talked about in the article I read, except it was all in favor of Soybean production (note to self, avoid soybeans like the plague!) The corruption is rampant. One guy who had illegal "squatters" logging on his property went out with a local cop and two gov't officials (akin to INRENA folks) and the local cop had clearly tipped off the loggers and they'd fled.

It made me understand the Pk. situation much much better, actually.

 

[gonewild]

I saw too much slash and burn areas when I was down there last fall and that was high jungle. There was very little original growth areas to see. It had all been logged starting in the 1800's. I didn't visit the low jungle. Lance, Isaias et al...is it any better in the low selva?

It is worse in the low jungle. The kovachii habitat does not really have lumber to attract commercial logging. Most of the slash and burn in the high jungle is for small family farms. This type of clearing won't really impact species like kovachii that grow on steep rocky cliffs. The cleared areas you saw were all within easy walk of a road. There are huge areas beyond that are still relatively safe. Once the new highway is built from Puerto Maldonado to Cusco or Puno it is all over for the southern Amazon in Peru. It will soon be all Brazilian soy bean fields.

 

[gonewild]

Gonewild
The ilegal drug trade is not good for the selva. DEA is spraying with SPIKE, an herbicide that is killing not only coca fields but all the flora and fauna is in very bad shape after their spraying...

Well it is the DEA that is spraying the toxic chemicals not the coca growers. I'm not defending the illegal drug trade. But in Madre de Dios, Puno, and Cusco departments I saw the task force working. They were not spraying they were burning. In the low jungle of the rio Las Piedras the drug trafficers are keeping illegal loggers out of vast areas. I was there and I saw it.

and no, INRENA will not be a better way to stop the black market...

It is the only way.

until a few bad officers are removed for their "services" offered to one comercial grower...still around in the market in these days.

So why have these few bad officers not been removed? I thought that is what Alan promised to do?

I am surprised nobody is comenting in the best way to stop black market: DO NOT SUPPORT THEM....

I am commenting! The black market buyers around the world won't be stopped because we tell them it is bad. They do not care. There will always be a black market. Tell us what Peru needs to do to stop the black market. I care and I want to hear your honest opinion.

 

[isaias m rolando]

I am sorry...too many questions. Can't answer all of them.
Perhaps the best is to answer the ones concerning cultural habits.
Do you see very much difference in growth habit between the 5 plants that were collected?
-No, pèrhaps these plants are from the same habitat, having all of them the same biotype.
-Nightmare happened when Selby Garden accepted to report the discovery. It was very hard to me to explain Dr Carl Luer (Member of the Board at Selby) about the ilegality of the original plant for description. He finally understood when I comented about: "... Dr Luer, this is like handling cocaine, if you do not report it to the police you can be charged for criminal actions for drug trafic, Phrags are under CITES 1, if no permits issued, the material is ilegal, and you all know that the original plant entered the US ilegally..."
-Once you have worked your own material INRENA considers it is yours. For the mother plants remains INRENA's custody...in your hands. All hybrids produced are yours.
-For P. besseae. GOOD NEWS! There is a new habitat in Peru. Have not visited yet, waiting for legal permits. Also the original site, after "a natural fire" that destroyed the habitat, some new plants appeared in the original habitat...with SEED PODS". Of course they are not as nice as the ones you have beein posting pictures of...but that is the result of people like Terry Root working to F4 and F5 selecting the best clones and duplicating ploidy ( to 4n), and the yellows...you have them all...the peach ones, etc. But this took 20 years of continuous work of good people, once the black market stoped their action because it was no more "interesting" for the prices were down after the flasking everywhere of PB.

 

[gonewild]

I am sorry...too many questions. Can't answer all of them.

You asked why no one talks about the black market problem and now you say "too many questions"? Thanks for reminding me!.