Phrag. 'brasiliense'

[littlefrog]

I put that in quotes because a lot of people believe it is actually Phrag. Patti McHale (sargentianum x pearcii). Whatever it is, it is a good grower and bloomer for me. I don't know how close together those are in the wild, maybe a natural hybrid. It was formally described in 2003. This is a piece of one the two plants that were originally imported. Straight from Ron Ciesinski.

I have a large division for sale... (relatively) cheap.


More info: http://www.orchid.or.jp/orchid/people/tanaka/orchid/org/shinshu/Phrag/ennew8.html

 

[MaxC]

Very good looking, love the red coloring.

 

[littlefrog]

Well, if it is Patti McHale, that comes from sargentianum. Supposedly this has been selfed or sibbed and the offspring come out uniform (according to the article), so that lends credibility to the species idea. I really don't know. Some people have strong opinions about it.

 

[MaxC]

@Drorchid posted some pictures some pictures a long time ago of some seedlings, unfortunately it says pictures are not available.

https://www.slippertalk.com/threads/phrag-brasiliense.1318/

 

[tomkalina]

Well, if it is Patti McHale, that comes from sargentianum. Supposedly this has been selfed or sibbed and the offspring come out uniform (according to the article), so that lends credibility to the species idea. I really don't know. Some people have strong opinions about it.

Looks pretty similar to that Paph. Patti MacHale 'Brazos' clone that was awarded down in Texas a while back. It's probably one of those things we'll never know.

 

[silence882]

Does anyone happen to be good friends with someone who has access to a DNA sequencing machine?

 

[tomkalina]

Does anyone happen to be good friends with someone who has access to a DNA sequencing machine?

Great idea; but the highest tech gadget we own is an EC meter....

 

[silence882]

Great idea; but the highest tech gadget we own is an EC meter....

I've got a multimeter if that helps!

 

[tomkalina]

I've got a multimeter if that helps!

AC or DC?

 

[silence882]

AC or DC?

Both! I was an auto mechanic for a short time so I got a fancy one.

 

[tomkalina]

Sure would like to see that multi-meter run on DC!

 

[littlefrog]

Does anyone happen to be good friends with someone who has access to a DNA sequencing machine?

Sequencing is easy, I used to do the bioinformatics for our sequencing facility (Now I just teach, and not bioinformatics...). That is not the hard part. Hard part is finding reference material for the parents (unknown, if it is a hybrid Patti McHale is just a guess). And figuring out what genes to sequence. Somebody might be doing whole genome analysis of phrags - I hope so. It isn't that expensive anymore, but you still need to find somebody to pony up some money and do the analysis. Heck, you pay for the sequencing, I'll work the dust off my bioinformatics skills.

15 years ago (or so, I have no sense of time and even less in the covid-19 era) one of the sequencing centers was offering a 'if you can process the data, we'll sequence your organism' kind of program. Helped write a proposal for amanita mushrooms (avenging angel) among other things, but left soon after that. I wonder if those ever came through.

 

[silence882]

Sequencing is easy, I used to do the bioinformatics for our sequencing facility (Now I just teach, and not bioinformatics...). That is not the hard part. Hard part is finding reference material for the parents (unknown, if it is a hybrid Patti McHale is just a guess). And figuring out what genes to sequence. Somebody might be doing whole genome analysis of phrags - I hope so. It isn't that expensive anymore, but you still need to find somebody to pony up some money and do the analysis. Heck, you pay for the sequencing, I'll work the dust off my bioinformatics skills.

15 years ago (or so, I have no sense of time and even less in the covid-19 era) one of the sequencing centers was offering a 'if you can process the data, we'll sequence your organism' kind of program. Helped write a proposal for amanita mushrooms (avenging angel) among other things, but left soon after that. I wonder if those ever came through.

I was just talking this over with a plant geneticist friend of mine! There are ITS sequences in one of the sequence databases (EMBL) for pearcei and sargentianum/lindleyanum/kaieteurum. If one of the original brasiliense clones were to have the ITS region sequenced, it could reveal if it's a hybrid. My friend sent me a paper where this technique was used to distinguish natural hybrids in pondweeds (Potamogeton). The paper used rbcL sequences to confirm the hybrid origin, but unfortunately those aren't available (that I can find) for Phrags.

I'm still looking into it, but you may get an email asking for a leaf tip or two

 

[littlefrog]

I was just talking this over with a plant geneticist friend of mine! There are ITS sequences in one of the sequence databases (EMBL) for pearcei and sargentianum/lindleyanum/kaieteurum. If one of the original brasiliense clones were to have the ITS region sequenced, it could reveal if it's a hybrid. My friend sent me a paper where this technique was used to distinguish natural hybrids in pondweeds (Potamogeton). The paper used rbcL sequences to confirm the hybrid origin, but unfortunately those aren't available (that I can find) for Phrags.

I'm still looking into it, but you may get an email asking for a leaf tip or two

Sure, happy to send some samples.