Phrag. caudatum 'Perfection'

[paphlady]

I honestly feel bad for the plants that were spectacular and were ignored. I feel like they got slighted. LOL. It is not me I just feel like it is an injustice against truth.LOL But Ricks statement really is accurate and well said.

I wouldn't if I were you (feel bad for the spectacular plants). IMHO, it's better for a "FCC quality" plant not be given any award than to be given a lesser award (let's say a HCC). I think the lesser is more insulting to the plant and the owner than no award. Consider yourself lucky with the caudatum.

As for "injustice against truth", it has always been there. One of the biggest problems with AOS judging is that the judges are expected to be able to judge every types of orchids. That's mission impossible. No one in this world has that ability. You have people who specialize in certain groups (e.g. Paph, Catt, Den, etc.). I doubt a person who grows only Cattleya can judge a Paph (give it an award it really deserves).

 

[SelectOrchids]

I wouldn't if I were you (feel bad for the spectacular plants). IMHO, it's better for a "FCC quality" plant not be given any award than to be given a lesser award (let's say a HCC). I think the lesser is more insulting to the plant and the owner than no award. Consider yourself lucky with the caudatum.

As for "injustice against truth", it has always been there. One of the biggest problems with AOS judging is that the judges are expected to be able to judge every types of orchids. That's mission impossible. No one in this world has that ability. You have people who specialize in certain groups (e.g. Paph, Catt, Den, etc.). I doubt a person who grows only Cattleya can judge a Paph (give it an award it really deserves).

I happens to have a FCC plant with me, and I wanted to get it awarded by the AOS at that time... Harold Koopowitz told me himself it was better not to do it, because if the judges were not knowledgeable they would give that plan an HCC, and I would be "in deep ****" (original quote). He proved to be right, I showed a callosum vini that was really beautiful ( even Hanajima who happened to be at that show and was still a huge nusery, and some more California growers said it was outstanding), that just got an HCC ( and the best species in show at the same time).

Great caudatum, with those leaves I would not be surprised if it turned out to be a tetraploid...

Some people do not bother anymore to get their plants judged, just take very goo pictures and that's all. I think on my side that it is better. For the micranthum KwangSee, I showed one at the RHS, and 3 at the DOG. One at the DOG got an SM, fine... but the 2 other ones and the RHS ones were rejected, and I learned after that the judges found they had huge flowers and perfect shape, BUT the pouch was not dark enough ( of course !). One famous professionnal grower from the USA submitted plants to an European judging team ( I would not say which one, only that they speak english...). None of them were awarded, though they were gorgeous. After the show, I was taking breakfast, where 1, then 2, then 3 judges asked for divisons. He sent them to hell oke: telling them that if they were not award quality, he would not bother them with divisions. Another time, pollen from an entire inflorescence disappeared ( a rothschildianum as I remember), only judges had access to the plants. There are plenty of stories like that that eventually made people disappointed with the judging systems anywhere in the world.

If one thinks very carefully, Terry Root got very, very few awards, for sure less than 30/year over the last 10 years, if not even less. He did not dare to bring the plants to be awarded, that's it. He knows their quality, he has pictures ( sometimes good, sometimes... :drool: but still know what it is), trusting customers and that's it. Of course, many of his plants are awarded, but not by him. The rothschildianum AQ/AOS was a big joke as well. Some FCC roths were awarded low award, and some "lower quality" ones were awarded FCC in his batch ( though all of them were gorgeous, no doubt !).

 

[Park Bear]

award or not, I still like it

 

[Corbin]

those are some long petals

 

[paphioland]

I happens to have a FCC plant with me, and I wanted to get it awarded by the AOS at that time... Harold Koopowitz told me himself it was better not to do it, because if the judges were not knowledgeable they would give that plan an HCC, and I would be "in deep ****" (original quote). He proved to be right, I showed a callosum vini that was really beautiful ( even Hanajima who happened to be at that show and was still a huge nusery, and some more California growers said it was outstanding), that just got an HCC ( and the best species in show at the same time).

Great caudatum, with those leaves I would not be surprised if it turned out to be a tetraploid...

Some people do not bother anymore to get their plants judged, just take very goo pictures and that's all. I think on my side that it is better. For the micranthum KwangSee, I showed one at the RHS, and 3 at the DOG. One at the DOG got an SM, fine... but the 2 other ones and the RHS ones were rejected, and I learned after that the judges found they had huge flowers and perfect shape, BUT the pouch was not dark enough ( of course !). One famous professionnal grower from the USA submitted plants to an European judging team ( I would not say which one, only that they speak english...). None of them were awarded, though they were gorgeous. After the show, I was taking breakfast, where 1, then 2, then 3 judges asked for divisons. He sent them to hell oke: telling them that if they were not award quality, he would not bother them with divisions. Another time, pollen from an entire inflorescence disappeared ( a rothschildianum as I remember), only judges had access to the plants. There are plenty of stories like that that eventually made people disappointed with the judging systems anywhere in the world.

If one thinks very carefully, Terry Root got very, very few awards, for sure less than 30/year over the last 10 years, if not even less. He did not dare to bring the plants to be awarded, that's it. He knows their quality, he has pictures ( sometimes good, sometimes... :drool: but still know what it is), trusting customers and that's it. Of course, many of his plants are awarded, but not by him. The rothschildianum AQ/AOS was a big joke as well. Some FCC roths were awarded low award, and some "lower quality" ones were awarded FCC in his batch ( though all of them were gorgeous, no doubt !).

Xavier you could not be closer to the truth here. That is why I don't show my plants often if at all. I do what you seem to do. I document the bloom time, a photo and accurate measurements. I usually include some comments about the flower. I know the quality of my plants.

This time I wanted to have the experiece of making a display but showing plants is not where my interests are.

I have a true story of an experiment where a friend of mine brought their album variation of a plant much bigger and better than any color form I have ever seen to test the judges. It was easily FCC quality. It was awarded a low HCC. It was just amazing. We got home measured the flower correctly they had shaved of over a cm in many of the dimensions. The very next morning my friend gets a call from an anonymous person wanting to buy the whole plant expecting to pay an HCC price (this was almost certainly a judge because who else would know). My friend told them the plant was 10k to stick it to them. When they said that was too much he hung up.

You are also right the roth awarding of the rex x mm clones from the OZ was a joke. There was no reason as to why some got awards and others didn't. Even the level of the award showed no correlation. I personally like 'wide horizon' the best but I think it got an hcc. lol. Some really great ones weren't even awarded.

Terry doesn't waste his time or money getting stuff awarded by people who have poorer eyes for paphs and have seen far less than he has. He keeps very up to date though by walking though own greenhouses, talking and looking at paphs from all over especially Japan. Also he is a hybridizer so he is not interested in the decent flower with no faults, he is looking for the spectacular ones.

This is not to say that all judges are poor or corrupt. I am sure there are many good ones out there. One of the main problem as Paphlady pointed out it that they can't possibly be knowledgable about all orchids. That is an absurd demand. I work really hard at learning about paphs/phrags and it is overwhelming by itself. Ask me about catts I have no idea what is good and what is not.

 

[paphlady]

Some people do not bother anymore to get their plants judged, just take very goo pictures and that's all. I think on my side that it is better. For the micranthum KwangSee, I showed one at the RHS, and 3 at the DOG. One at the DOG got an SM, fine... but the 2 other ones and the RHS ones were rejected, and I learned after that the judges found they had huge flowers and perfect shape, BUT the pouch was not dark enough ( of course !). One famous professionnal grower from the USA submitted plants to an European judging team ( I would not say which one, only that they speak english...). None of them were awarded, though they were gorgeous. After the show, I was taking breakfast, where 1, then 2, then 3 judges asked for divisons. He sent them to hell oke: telling them that if they were not award quality, he would not bother them with divisions. Another time, pollen from an entire inflorescence disappeared ( a rothschildianum as I remember), only judges had access to the plants. There are plenty of stories like that that eventually made people disappointed with the judging systems anywhere in the world.

I believe you. I've heard many similar stories (and then some). Sadly, I personally experienced some of them as well. As a result, I have no interest in AOS whatsoever. I was being polite with my previous post.

If one thinks very carefully, Terry Root got very, very few awards, for sure less than 30/year over the last 10 years, if not even less. He did not dare to bring the plants to be awarded, that's it. He knows their quality, he has pictures ( sometimes good, sometimes... :drool: but still know what it is), trusting customers and that's it. Of course, many of his plants are awarded, but not by him. The rothschildianum AQ/AOS was a big joke as well. Some FCC roths were awarded low award, and some "lower quality" ones were awarded FCC in his batch ( though all of them were gorgeous, no doubt !).

Terry Root not dare to bring his plants to be awarded? That doesn't sound like what I've heard about him. I think it's more of a waste of his time than anything else. I know it is a waste of my time.

 

[paphlady]

You are also right the roth awarding of the rex x mm clones from the OZ was a joke. There was no reason as to why some got awards and others didn't. Even the level of the award showed no correlation. I personally like 'wide horizon' the best but I think it got an hcc. lol. Some really great ones weren't even awarded.

From what I've heard and pics I've seen (and if I remember correctly), up to the point where OZ took the plants in for judging, each one of the roths in that group surpassed all the FCC roth awarded until then. If they had judged those plants correctly, each of those roths should have received an award (if not all FCC's).