Phrag grown hydroponically in aquaria

[Ernesto]

Since some Phrag species can be grown with wet feet, is it possible to take this a step further and grow them near the surface of an aquarium? I have a couple divisions from my Incan Treasure that fell off while I was trimming its roots that I was considering sticking into this breeder box and floating in one of my betta grow out tanks.

Would this be viable? Nitrogen would be available constantly at about 30ppm in the form of nitrate. pH in these tanks comes out at about 5.3 and the temps hold at about 80 degrees Fahrenheit. If pH and temperature are an issue, I also have tanks buffered by cuttlebone that sit at 7.4 and a temperature range of 60-70. I’m unsure about the phosphorus and potassium available in the water, and I also don’t know the amount of trace minerals present.

 

[Linus_Cello]

You could also try a phal

https://www.slippertalk.com/threads/aquatic-phalaenopsis.42165/page-3#post-613923

 

[eds]

I would have thought it would be important to only have the tips of the roots and not the base of the plant or all the roots in water. It might be better to try one in a similar container without a fish in first in case the plant roots and turns to mush polluting the water. Apart from that please give it a go and report back here if it works and I might have another option for my planned Amazon aquarium!

 

[Ray]

If you submerge the existing roots and base of the plant, they will likely suffocate, die and rot. If, on the other hand, you can elevate the pots to have only the bottoms in contact with the water (assuming the roots are raised above that), they will eventually grow down into the water and will be fine.

 

[MaxC]

I believe Tom Kalina mentioned back in the day klotzcheanum would sometimes be sold as an aquariaum plant. If testing out I would imagine some of the species that spend time submerged along rivers as a good choices to experiment. For example you could pick up a modestly priced pearcei that would yield results pretty quickly.

@eds that drip system you have going is having some exciting results. Looking forward to more updates on root tips

 

[tomkalina]

I believe Tom Kalina mentioned back in the day klotzcheanum would sometimes be sold as an aquariaum plant. If testing out I would imagine some of the species that spend time submerged along rivers as a good choices to experiment. For example you could pick up a modestly priced pearcei that would yield results pretty quickly.

@eds that drip system you have going is having some exciting results. Looking forward to more updates on root tips

Phrag. klotzscheanum was collected during the rainy season when the stream-side plants would be submerged for weeks at a time, and sold as an aquarium plant in the early 1900's. It quickly lost favor as an aquarium plant when it did not survive completely submerged for very long.

 

[NYEric]

The roots must have some length out of water.

 

[ostarraann]

The roots must have some length out of water.

Sorry. Wrong thread.

 

[big923cattleya]

Since some Phrag species can be grown with wet feet, is it possible to take this a step further and grow them near the surface of an aquarium? I have a couple divisions from my Incan Treasure that fell off while I was trimming its roots that I was considering sticking into this breeder box and floating in one of my betta grow out tanks.

Would this be viable? Nitrogen would be available constantly at about 30ppm in the form of nitrate. pH in these tanks comes out at about 5.3 and the temps hold at about 80 degrees Fahrenheit. If pH and temperature are an issue, I also have tanks buffered by cuttlebone that sit at 7.4 and a temperature range of 60-70. I’m unsure about the phosphorus and potassium available in the water, and I also don’t know the amount of trace minerals present.

Being grown with ‘wet feet’ does not mean what you think it means. It is not constantly wet 365/24/7. In South America where many Phrags. are from, they do grow stream side, not in the stream. During the rainy or monsoon season the water levels rise bathing the plants in gently flowing water. I am not a climate expert but perhaps these rain overflows last weeks or a couple months. I do not know.
When I grew my first few Phrags. in the mid 80’s, I grew them with a saucer at the base of the plant. That worked fairly well.
But now I grow them under lights, with 2” deep metal trays collecting excess water. I try to keep the humidity as high as possible. With the effect of home heating lowering humidity, I am lucky to maintain 45-50%. In the summer when the go outside, 55-65% is common. But in my experience they like to be watered often, kept on the moist side but that are not bog or marsh plants.

I had about 30 mature plants last year and had 19 bloom. That is like 62% or so. Some are easier then others. Kovachii are the hardest to bloom in my opinion. Besseae like it wetter.

 

[Ernesto]

i decided to circle back to this idea after getting some more phrag growing experience under my belt. here are my results with Phrag. Baerbel:


April 6th. previously grown in LECA semi-hydroponically for 2-3 months and seemed to be really happy, pushing out a few new roots in that time. i was feeling pretty optimistic this could work


April 17th. the new growth started to show signs of leaf growth and the start of a new root can be seen to the right


May 20th. visible root growth extending throughout the LECA and the new fan is leafing out nicely

long term success remains to be seen, but i have promising results with this plant and have decided to try growing a few more this way

 

[Marco]

Neat idea. I’m wondering if the idea can be extended to an Aquarian sump? It would afford for a bigger “pot”. The plant would get all the goodness from the fish and clean it up for them.

 

[Linus_Cello]

What fish are in your aquarium? Probably won’t work for my discus tank.

 

[NYEric]

Sorry. Wrong thread.

Excuse me?

 

[FrankRC]

The amount of bad information and hand me down nonsense in the Phrag. community never ceases to amaze me.

 

[Morja]

What led you to decide to completely submerge vs partial? Curious to see the results!

The amount of bad information and hand me down nonsense in the Phrag. community never ceases to amaze me.

This feels kind of like a random comment. Experimentation is a fun way to learn, and people manage to grow plants in such a huge variety of ways that if this worked it wouldn't surprise me. Though I'm like 20,000 levels below being any kind of expert myself and appreciate watching other people experiment

 

[Ernesto]

The amount of bad information and hand me down nonsense in the Phrag. community never ceases to amaze me.

the phrag community? all 12 of us?

 

[Ernesto]

What fish are in your aquarium? Probably won’t work for my discus tank.

i’m keeping things simple with a trio of platies at the moment. i’d like to throw some swordtails in there and get a hybrid population going at some point, but i don’t necessarily need another breeding project in my life lol. i’d imagine the warm water temps you need for the discus might not be compatible with phrags? idk ask frank

 

[Ernesto]

Neat idea. I’m wondering if the idea can be extended to an Aquarian sump? It would afford for a bigger “pot”. The plant would get all the goodness from the fish and clean it up for them.

that sounds cool. i wonder if keeping fast growing aquatic plants (or a pothos in the sump “upstream” of the phrags) would help clean up the water before it gets to them. i guess there’s also the possibility they soak up ammonia/nitrite/nitrate TOO well and leave little nitrogen for the phrags

 

[Ernesto]

What led you to decide to completely submerge vs partial? Curious to see the results!

This feels kind of like a random comment. Experimentation is a fun way to learn, and people manage to grow plants in such a huge variety of ways that if this worked it wouldn't surprise me. Though I'm like 20,000 levels below being any kind of expert myself and appreciate watching other people experiment

partial vs complete submersion of the roots didn’t cross my mind, i just needed to bury them so the plant would be stable in the LECA lol. curiously the new root growth is very active along the surface of the LECA, though i’ve seen some roots begin to descend deeper as well. i figured they’d grow where there is adequate amounts of oxygen and avoid the depth where oxygen is lacking. as the water is constantly moving it should be reasonably aerated, and as LECA can be used as media for biological filtration there’s gotta be oxygen present to support aerobic nitrifying bacteria. so maybe there’s enough for plant roots— at least down to a certain depth. it’s just a hunch, but it seems reasonable enough to try

 

[Marco]

For what it’s worth I tried growing a paph in leca sitting in little bit of water. Didn’t work out well. Tried it with neos. Didn’t work out well.