Phrag Lovely Lynne 4n x sib blooming thread

[PeteM]

So here we go! Round two.
This is the first to flower last year and this. Last years is on page 1 of the thread.
View attachment 49201View attachment 49202
This is clone 16. I numbered them when they were potted up individually.
The colour is a bit more purple than in the photo. It’s unlikely to be a keeper. Although it’s a good grower, the flower shape isn’t great and the flower stem is so tall. NS is 11cm and more to come.
View attachment 49203View attachment 49204
This is clone 12. Last year’s flower is on page 2 of the thread. It’s a possible keeper. The flower is good (it could be flatter) and the stem is more manageable. NS is again 11cm and it’s still expanding.
Good to see that both flowers are larger and an improvement on last year.

Well done. They look happy and the moss seems to be well established now too. Time to pot this one (clone 12) up!? Do you have access to bigger baskets? Will be interesting to see which one you choose to grow up. I’ve been potting up important phrags to larger baskets with the same media and they have responded well with multiple growths and spikes.

 

[monocotman]

Thanks for the info Pete. I have plenty of larger baskets and will definitely pot some of them up. It depends on how many I keep. I have the luxury of being able to select between 26 individuals of which maybe 23 will flower in the next few months.

 

[terryros]

The second one has better configuration and I agree the tall stems are an inconvenience for the indoor grower. There is a thickness to the flowers in the picture that fit well with polyploid. I have accepted that no matter how we shuffle kovachii, besseae, and dalessandroi genes, the best polyploid hybrids will all have the same shape, size, and coloration. Most awarded Fritz Schomburg have been in the 11-12 cm range, but FS ‘Eddie Lick Run’, a 93 point FCC in 2019 from Woodstream was round, flat, and was 14.4 cm wide. However, it was not very red. It must have been polyploid. I will be interested to see if you can tell the difference between your best polyploid Fritz Schomburg and your best Lovely Lynne. There is only so much we can ask of these genes.

 

[monocotman]

Terry, we can only hope! I’ll be in a much better position to say what’s possible in another three or four months when up to 23 of these plants have flowered.
Can we find a red with a 14cm natural spread? Who knows, it’s one of the joys of breeding. As far as I can see, not many 4n x 4n crosses in this area of breeding have been made. The FCC clone you refer to and the FS at OL you posted earlier in this thread were both one off spontaneous plants. I’m sure that both are now being used for breeding but so far, I haven’t seen any progeny posted online.
If this cross is actually LL4n x LL4n then it’s cutting edge breeding.
The next step is to see if any of these plants are fertile.

 

[monocotman]

Clone 12, second bloom. Better shape but a smaller (10cm NS) flower.
It’s definitely now a keeper.

 

[PeteM]

Clone 12, second bloom. Better shape but a smaller (10cm NS) flower.View attachment 49419
It’s definitely now a keeper.

I can’t wait to watch you grow it into a monster! Congratulations!

 

[monocotman]

Clone 11 flowering for the second time.

It’s a vigorous but sprawling grower with a tall flower stem. It’s also a climber with several dead aerial roots so things are stacked against it. Probably not a keeper. It is however the first one to bloom this time with a flat flower. The stripes across the middle of the petals are getting less pronounced than last time.

 

[Morja]

This is going to be a really fun thread to watch.

 

[sergeharvey]

Clone 11 flowering for the second time.
View attachment 49440View attachment 49441
It’s a vigorous but sprawling grower with a tall flower stem. It’s also a climber with several dead aerial roots so things are stacked against it. Probably not a keeper. It is however the first one to bloom this time with a flat flower. The stripes across the middle of the petals are getting less pronounced than last time.

Personnaly I find the dorsal too pointed to my liking, but who am I to critisize....

 

[terryros]

Personnaly I find the dorsal too pointed to my liking, but who am I to critisize....

I agree that #12 has a better shape.

 

[monocotman]

I agree that #12 has a better shape.

Indeed Terry but its 2cm smaller (11cm v 13cm)

 

[terryros]

Indeed Terry but its 2cm smaller (11cm v 13cm)

So hard to get the genes to align to get 14 cm, round shape, flat, not reflexing, and redder in color. It might take many flasks to come up with one!

 

[monocotman]

Indeed but we’ve a few more chances in the genetic lottery yet!

 

[monocotman]

So the good one ( I’ve named it St Ives) has finally opened. This is just day two so there is plenty more expanding to go. Flower width is already 11.5cm and petal width just over 5 cm.

Another years growth and it’s clear that this plant is a bit different to all the others. The foliage is short and chunky, the flower stem is short and thick. It doesn’t need a stake. There is a small tooth on one of the petals. It all points to this plant being polyploid or maybe more polyploid than the others. Unless you’ve access to a professional cytogeneticist you’ll never really know.
Anyway whatever it is, it’s obviously a lovely flower and I’ll use it’s pollen to cross it with the other nice red (clone 12) that’s still in bloom.

 

[Linus_Cello]

Anyway whatever it is, it’s obviously a lovely flower and I’ll use its pollen to cross it with the other nice red (clone 12) that’s still in bloom.

Is the “nice red” also maybe 4n? Do you have something else that might be 4n?

 

[monocotman]

Good question Linus, it’s all conjecture at the moment and all we’ve to go on is the appearance of the plant and blooms. This plant certainly looks to be a higher ploidy than the other seedlings. That’s about all I can say.

 

[terryros]

So the good one ( I’ve named it St Ives) has finally opened. This is just day two so there is plenty more expanding to go. Flower width is already 11.5cm and petal width just over 5 cm.
View attachment 49504View attachment 49505
Another years growth and it’s clear that this plant is a bit different to all the others. The foliage is short and chunky, the flower stem is short and thick. It doesn’t need a stake. There is a small tooth on one of the petals. It all points to this plant being polyploid or maybe more polyploid than the others. Unless you’ve access to a professional cytogeneticist you’ll never really know.
Anyway whatever it is, it’s obviously a lovely flower and I’ll use it’s pollen to cross it with the other nice red (clone 12) that’s still in bloom.

That one has hit the mark. It will go over 12 cm, it is round and full, the petals are thick, and you are describing a polyploid plant. You only needed one great one out of the batch and you got it.

 

[monocotman]

Indeed Terry, the next aim is to get it to a fully mature size!
It will not need repotting this coming year so there won’t be any shock from that unlike last spring. Fingers crossed!

 

[MichaelTibbs]

So the good one ( I’ve named it St Ives) has finally opened. This is just day two so there is plenty more expanding to go. Flower width is already 11.5cm and petal width just over 5 cm.
View attachment 49504View attachment 49505
Another years growth and it’s clear that this plant is a bit different to all the others. The foliage is short and chunky, the flower stem is short and thick. It doesn’t need a stake. There is a small tooth on one of the petals. It all points to this plant being polyploid or maybe more polyploid than the others. Unless you’ve access to a professional cytogeneticist you’ll never really know.
Anyway whatever it is, it’s obviously a lovely flower and I’ll use it’s pollen to cross it with the other nice red (clone 12) that’s still in bloom.

Areal beauty

 

[monocotman]

St Ives has matured with a flower width of 12.3 cm or a shade under five inches. Pretty big for a red one. The petals are 5cm across. The whole plant is different to the other 25 seedlings with shorter wider leaves, so polyploidy is definitely playing some role here, but exactly what, who knows?