PK culture using ebb and flow

[LostInPeru]

Has anyone had success from home using the ebb and flow/flood system to grow PK with minimal care?

Between the hydroton/expanded clay and automated water/nutrient delivery I could see the culture of this species being incredibly easy.

Does the ebb and flow system ensure a very high success rate with this plant does anyone know?

Also I am in Australia and can't seem to locate any for sale here. I see a lot of relatively inexpensive small systems on ebay that look perfect for a home gardener like myself but don't really want to purchase from overseas because all the electronics will be incompatible with our sockets.

Also a lot of the smaller ones seem to have a tray that is too shallow and I was wondering if this matters. Regarding fertilizer is it necessary to use special hydroponic stuff or will the soluble fertilizer you purchase at your local garden center do?

 

[NYEric]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xwPnlwtShcQ
You can make your own ebb-flow system pretty easily. I would not use expanded clay alone though.

 

[LostInPeru]

I saw that video from Orchids Limited and it's what made me start thinking about this way of growing them.

But I thought they don't seem to have many PK when you consider how large the seed pods are and all the seedlings they have probably produced which makes me think even with this system you still get a large failure rate.

I would try other medium but have heard diatomite is bad for your health and want to get away from organic medium that breaks down after a year. I'm lazy and have seen photos of someone growing their PK in hydroton and thought why not as it seems easy.

 

[NYEric]

OL has tons of Pk, as many as anyone in the USA.

 

[LostInPeru]

My idea of Hydroton is it seems to not present the problems seen with mix's that break down and suffocate the plants and or stay too wet and cause root rot.

But so many people seem to have problems with PK that I am thinking why they never thought to try this way of growing them and that their must be more to it than just using this system and that essentially PK seems a nightmare to grow from what I have been reading.

To be honest can't believe I have to go to all this trouble just to grow this plant. Have decided to put PK in the too hard basket. Plus I don't have the desire to wait 6 years or more to see one flower.

When you consider my options for acquiring one, I have to pay all the customs, shipping and three months of quarantine fees on top of the paperwork fees. Makes me think CITES is nothing but a revenue generating tool and is why international governments have embraced the treaty with open arms. The chances are any plants I purchase will be stolen, either from my house or while in the quarantine greenhouse. Plus I don't have the money to purchase the plant, pay all the customs and paper work fees, pay for a ebb and flow system and then mess around trying to source hydroton and the proper fertilizers and nutrients etc.

Sorry for wasting your time but I won't bother pursuing this interest. I think I would have a nervous breakdown if I got one anyway struggling to keep it's conditions perfect. I don't have the patience of a saint required for plants lol. Thanks for talking but I realize this hobby is not for me.

 

[NYEric]

Hahahaha! How many dead plants ago have I said that?! My favorite orchid, Phrag besseae, is one of the ones that I find most difficult, that will never stop me. There are many orchids you can get cheaply and have many happy blooms so don't dismiss the hobby. You chose one of the rarest and most difficult orchids to begin with and haven't even started. You sound like you want to have your dreams handed to you on a plate. It would be nice but where's the challenge and accomplishment in that? Plus, in what life does that happen to anyone?

 

[Dido]

I know experts which fail on PK and dont know why
The same for other kind in Phrag and Paph
Schlimii for example grows good for me but I did not flower one till now.
I have some PK hybrids one grows like hell, and made 3 grows in 1,5 years the other I have problems to keep alive.
I bought 3 flask and received bad quality of this hybrids with PK.
I was only able to get 2 plants to survive and they grow good, but have not one really root till now, it seems that they live only from my spraying so no idea why. Now I changed medium again.
At least this changed one gave a new leave to another seedling of PK hybrid I got from a friend.
So I am doint something wrong for sure, but try to learn and find out what but you see at least is growing like hell for me under the same condition I nearly kill the others.

 

[parvi_17]

My idea of Hydroton is it seems to not present the problems seen with mix's that break down and suffocate the plants and or stay too wet and cause root rot.

But so many people seem to have problems with PK that I am thinking why they never thought to try this way of growing them and that their must be more to it than just using this system and that essentially PK seems a nightmare to grow from what I have been reading.

To be honest can't believe I have to go to all this trouble just to grow this plant. Have decided to put PK in the too hard basket. Plus I don't have the desire to wait 6 years or more to see one flower.

When you consider my options for acquiring one, I have to pay all the customs, shipping and three months of quarantine fees on top of the paperwork fees. Makes me think CITES is nothing but a revenue generating tool and is why international governments have embraced the treaty with open arms. The chances are any plants I purchase will be stolen, either from my house or while in the quarantine greenhouse. Plus I don't have the money to purchase the plant, pay all the customs and paper work fees, pay for a ebb and flow system and then mess around trying to source hydroton and the proper fertilizers and nutrients etc.

Sorry for wasting your time but I won't bother pursuing this interest. I think I would have a nervous breakdown if I got one anyway struggling to keep it's conditions perfect. I don't have the patience of a saint required for plants lol. Thanks for talking but I realize this hobby is not for me.

I hope I don't sound too rude in saying this, but honestly I have read a bunch of your posts and you have said this like three times before, only to be gung-ho about it again the next day. It's bizarre. Just buy some easy and cheap Phrag hybrids and experiment with them, if you don't want to risk killing an expensive plant. Phrag kovachii will only get cheaper and more available in the future - you don't need to rush to get one now when you have no experience. That said, if you really want to, do it, but your complaining about how hard it is to grow is getting old. I always say, nothing that is easy is worth doing. The challenge is half of the allure of growing these plants for most of us. You're contemplating giving up before you have even started - how much sense does that make? We all started somewhere, and it wasn't growing Phrag kovachii.

 

[Stone]

Has anyone had success from home using the ebb and flow/flood system to grow PK with minimal care?

I have a friend using this method and it works well although it's not necessary. If you keep it in a saucer of water with frequent changes or just water a lot it will grow fine. ( assuming all other factors are right)

 

[Ray]

Eric: Why would you not use LECA?

Mike: I think an advantage of an active system is the fact that the medium never dries at all - no drying mean no mineral or waste buildup, so the root zone is more "pristine" and constantly low in EC. Of course, sharing a nutrient bath is a great way to share pathogens.

 

[LostInPeru]

I always thought the organic media was the reason why the first PK growers had so much trouble because it made their mix acidic which PK doesn't like whereas the expanded clay is neutral and this problem never arises with it. But I am just a newbie who has never grown an orchid so what would I know.

This person seems to be growing a PK seedling happily with no problems in expanded clay/ hydroton.

http://www.neovita.com/orkideer/no.cgi?gem=visaNyckelord&nyckelord=phragmipedium kovachii

Process through google translate for english version.

Although I never realized what I was getting into with orchid people until I read the book by Pittman and think it's best no to get involved in this world.

It seems people will stop at nothing to acquire this plant, and hearing some of the lows people will go to at orchid shows stealing this plants blooms for pollen and even up to recent times selling for thousands of dollars just doesn't attract me at all to this hobby.

I was toying with the idea of how easy it would be to purchase a legal plant with all proper papers of flowering size which is most probably been yanked from the jungle to satisfy the demand for mature plants. But I can't justify purchasing a plant that I know had otherwise been sitting in a rainforest for probably 10-20 years.

CITES and INRENA have no legitimacy in my eyes, as they are both compromised by corruption and shady back room deals and I would only be supporting them by acquiring a plant as I see all PK stock integrity as being compromised due to the nature of the Peru government and others to be unreliable when it comes to being truthful and am under no illusions about this.

Plus this is just another parasocial relationship I don't need.

 

[gonewild]

whereas the expanded clay is neutral and this problem never arises with it.

Expanded clay is not pH neutral.

CITES and INRENA have no legitimacy in my eyes, as they are both compromised by corruption and shady back room deals and I would only be supporting them by acquiring a plant as I see all PK stock integrity as being compromised due to the nature of the Peru government and others to be unreliable when it comes to being truthful and am under no illusions about this.

And you base this on what you read in a book?

 

[Ray]

Expanded clay is not pH neutral.

What makes you sat that, Lance?

I filled a glass jar with PrimeAgra that had been rinsed-, then soaked in RO water for 48 hours. I then filled the void space with more RO (that had been in an open air tank in the greenhouse, pH of 5.6), and sealed the jar.

A little over one year later I saw no change in pH or EC.

 

[gonewild]

What makes you sat that, Lance?

I filled a glass jar with PrimeAgra that had been rinsed-, then soaked in RO water for 48 hours. I then filled the void space with more RO (that had been in an open air tank in the greenhouse, pH of 5.6), and sealed the jar.

A little over one year later I saw no change in pH or EC.

Is pH 5.6 neutral?

 

[NYEric]

LOL!
I would not use straight leca in anything. I saw salt build up when I tried it and I almost never add fertilizer to the RO water I use.

 

[Ray]

Is pH 5.6 neutral?

No, but that's the equilibrium pH of pure water with CO2 in the air. The fact that it did not change in a year suggests "pretty inert" to me.


Ray Barkalow (via Tapatalk)

 

[Ray]

Is pH 5.6 neutral?

No, but that's the equilibrium pH of pure water with CO2 in the air. The fact that it did not change in a year suggests "pretty inert" to me.


Ray Barkalow (via Tapatalk)

 

[gonewild]

No, but that's the equilibrium pH of pure water with CO2 in the air. The fact that it did not change in a year suggests "pretty inert" to me.
Ray Barkalow (via Tapatalk)

It suggests "inert" but not pH "neutral". When media is refereed to as neutral I think pH7 or near to it. If I am incorrect please correct me.

I did extensive tests when you switched to the new primeAgra and it definitely caused pH swings towards acidic where the old form did not.
I have a current catalog that lists an expanded clay product "Arcitek" and they list the pH as 9.0-10.0 at 25c.
At the very least there is a great variability between expanded clay products so that is why I say they are not pH neutral.

 

[Ray]

I see your point, Lance. It just seemed to me that if the water pH did not change, it indicated there was nothing coming from the LECA to change it, suggesting "neutral", since H2CO3 is a very weak acid that can be very easily overwhelmed, and does little to buffer the water. I could be wrong.

I have some "pH Pencils" - you make a mark on something solid and then wet it, and it's supposed to tell you the surface pH of the material.

I think there may be some value in testing a variety of substrates.

Now if I can only find some time...

 

[jtrmd]

I think if I give this one a try again. I am going to use straight diatomite and sit the pot in a saucer of water.