Silvan
Multiflorals assassin
If you do that, you'll have to water your plant every day. I really don't
know why people want to grow a kovachii using a media
they're not familiar with, ...
Anyway, Good luck finding diatomite rocks
PK culture using ebb and flow
- Thread starter LostInPeru
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If you do that, you'll have to water your plant every day. I really don't
know why people want to grow a kovachii using a media
they're not familiar with, ...
Anyway, Good luck finding diatomite rocks
He has a hidden stash!!
If you do that, you'll have to water your plant every day. I really don't
know why people want to grow a kovachii using a media
they're not familiar with, ...
Anyway, Good luck finding diatomite rocks
I have a huge 25# bag of them and add it to my besseae mix. The Phrags get watered pretty much everyday now, unless its been cloudy for a few days and their mix isnt drying out.
He has a hidden stash!!
How did you know? It was free too hahahaha! I think Eric has been peeking his head into my potting mix stash.lol!
Right now, I'm looking as far as Florida for medium size diatomite.
I saw diatomite at the NJOS show; was it too small?
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C
Clark
Guest
Right now, I'm looking as far as Florida for medium size diatomite.
What is it worth to you?
HAHAHA!
I saw it at the Maryland Show, but cant remember who was selling it. I remember seeing it on the Repotme website some time back.
gnathaniel
Lurker
Is stalite (expanded shale/slate) sufficiently similar to diatomite? I got a 65# bag of Sunleaves brand 'Rocks' (available in two size ranges, 0.25-0.5" and 0.5-1.5") for a little over $20 at a hydroponics store. Some concrete-supply places sell stalite, and garden centers sometimes carry it under the names haydite or Perma-Till.
LostInPeru
Well-Known Member
ha ha what I find bizarre is that to purchase a PK from a supposedly legit source I have to fork out a whopping great amount to fill the minimum order requirements, not to mention all the extra fees and charges associated with the CITES and Photosanitary paperwork, shipping, customs inspection and fumigation fees, three months of quarantine fees to pay someone to watch it grow for three months in their greenhouse, import permit fees and their are probably more hidden fees and charges I am unaware of. I thought by getting into orchids they would be cheaper than my old hobby which revolved around expensive collectable robots which are by far rarer and more valuable than any PK, yet ironically are cheaper than PK. I can't figure it out.
So if I chop and change my mind I have a pretty good reason. I also find it outrageous that the amount I am being asked to pay for plants is to my mind disproportionate to their real value. It is just insanity.
Regarding their culture it seems pretty much to be a no brainer. Just grow them in a material that won't cause root rot or acidic ph levels. Don't let them get too much indirect sunlight. And use an ebb and flow to keep them constantly wet without any worries about over watering or under watering.
Your tired of hearing about my complaining about how hard PK is to grow, and I am tired of everyone telling me not to start with PK. Your comments don't make any sense.
As for growing other types of orchid I don't understand why you would think I would waste hard earned cash on common run of the mill stuff when I can have the holy grail of the hobby. It just doesn't make any sense. Won't bother this place again.
Thanks.
That depends upon what properties you're referring to with "sufficiently similar".
Diatomite's microstructure is one of tiny little gaps within the dense network of diatom "skeletons". Think of it as an ultra-fine textured sponge. They absorb really well, but it is difficult to get water and minerals back out of the central part of the particles.
Shale has a flat, layered structure that has water molecules bridging and bonding the layers. Once heated up so that water is driven off, the layers separate, providing space to absorb water (just like a related mineral, vermiculite). It won't hold nearly as much water as diatomite, but isn't likely to build up minerals and wastes as quickly, either.
:sob::sob:
parvi_17
Well-Known Member
Since I'm pretty sure you will be back to read this, I will attempt to educate you a bit...
When you are attempting to buy a CITES listed species and have it shipped across international borders, this is what you have to deal with. And since all orchids are listed on CITES, it's what we all have to deal with as orchid growers if we want to trade internationally. If you are really passionate about orchids, as all of us here are, you either suck it up or just buy domestically. But it doesn't sound like you are really interested in orchids, other than this one plant. So I don't know what to say.
The "real value" of anything, whether it be your robots or Phrag kovachii, is determined by two things: supply and demand. Phrag kovachii has high demand and low supply, therefore it commands high prices. There are also many people who are willing to pay those prices. Thus the price you are being asked to pay is in fact its true value. If vendors have been curt or brief with you, as you seem to have indicated before, it's because they aren't going to waste their time on someone who isn't serious about buying one of these expensive plants. There are lots of people who are.
Their culture is still in the "experimentation" stage, as it still isn't a widely owned species. The method you are referring to is one experiment that has worked for one major grower. One thing you learn with orchid growing is something that works for one person may not work for you. Everyone's conditions are different. This isn't the way I would personally grow this plant, because I wouldn't want to give up the money and space to set up the system for it. But I find this topic interesting because I can take elements of this method and adapt them to my own culture. That's what orchid growing is all about.
I'm sorry to have offended you. But honestly, all anyone is trying to do is 1. save you money and heartbreak and 2. save a rare plant which could otherwise fall into the hands of an experienced hobbyist from almost certain death, particularly if you were to start with a small seedling. I'm sorry if that's insulting to hear, I'm just being frank with you. It's like giving me an endangered species of fish or something to look after. I could read up on it all I wanted and do the best I could, but without the experience of looking after other fish that someone else might have, I would have a very high chance of killing it.
What I don't understand is why or how you would turn your nose up at other orchids, which are very similar to this species, yet be so obsessed with this one. That is what doesn't make any sense. I think maybe orchids aren't for you then?
Anyway, the topic you brought up here is interesting, and I look forward to seeing the conversation with some of our more experienced growers on the forum continue.
mormodes
Well-Known Member
A friend of mine spent some effort on an ebb and flow system similar to the one mentioned in this thread. It didn't work for him. I'm not sure why or how he grows his phrags now. Despite my neglect I still have a very small pk seedling surviving in straight fine orchiata in a semi-hydro pot made from a plastic cup IIRC. Leaf span probably 3" tip to tip, *G*! From a flask from Decker I got years ago. Its been in that cup/bark for 2+ years. It has made the rounds of the GH's microclimates, most of which are varieties of intermediate. Ditto the amount of light, mostly cattleya-like. I guess this makes me the ranking champion of pk abuse. I'd post a pic but you'd all lose your lunches.
I grew pk with 4" pots standing in about 1 inch of moving water. I had set up the system to work as ebb and flow but it proved to be too tedious on a small scale (about 130 plants). So I just watered them everyday overhead but still maintained the standing water. The plants grew great, fast and I had zero mortality. But a problem arose in that the pk roots loved to grow out into the water. When I needed to move the pots they had roots 8 or 10" long growing out of the drainage holes. It was impossible to move the plants or repot without breaking the brittle roots. The pk did not like having their roots damaged and after the disturbance they stopped growing for about 6 months.
They did recover and grew normally to blooming size with pots not standing in water but still watered everyday.
So I see a potential problem for ebb and flow unless it is carefully maintained. Of maybe during the "ebb" the pots are not standing in water to discourage the adventurous roots. But then it is not a good idea to ever discourage roots!
They did recover and grew normally to blooming size with pots not standing in water but still watered everyday.
So I see a potential problem for ebb and flow unless it is carefully maintained. Of maybe during the "ebb" the pots are not standing in water to discourage the adventurous roots. But then it is not a good idea to ever discourage roots!
chrismende
Well-Known Member
I'm growing PK seedlings and their hybrids in ebb and flood very successfully. They are planted in regular Orchiata and Growstone (expanded glass the works similarly to perlite without the breakdown issue). I flood them twice a day for 15 to 30 minutes in warm seasons and once a day in winter, even stopping the floods in extremely humid periods. They grow very well. My water is RO, augmented with a fertilizer designed like MSU for RO water.
What is the difference between flooding the plants twice per day using e&f or just watering twice per day?
chrismende
Well-Known Member
Not much, probably, though flooding avoids the crown rot of watering from above and simulates the seepage process best. They do stay wet. No rot problems.
