Prime Agra New vs. Old

[gonewild]

The new stuff does look more like hydroton but darker(like Ron said). The thing is, is that what I like least about hydroton is the uniform, ball shape. The hydroton is forever rolling out of the pots if I get a bit over exuberant in my watering. If I happen to tip a pot over, if the plant is fairly new and not rooted well yet, the stuff goes everywhere. I liked how the old primeagra stayed put. I probably use more hydroton than primeagra, so I've learned to live with it. It's amazing what you put up with when it's available locally and cheaper:wink:

I will most likely try the new media eventually, but I'll experiment like I do with any new media. On only a few healthy plants(that aren't treasured) and see what happens.

I agree. The rough shape of the old PA was perfect. I don't like the new more spherical shape.

How does the wicking of hydroton compare to the old PA for you? Does it use about the same amount of water?

 

[Candace]

The hydroton wicks much less, that's for sure. The bottom 1/3 is moist and the top 2/3 on the drier side. Where the old primeagra has a wetter gradient. But, any orchids that were able to tap into that bottom layer of hydroton responded well. I grow a lot of cattleya genera so they have taken to both the hydroton and primeagra well. I've noticed my paphs seem to do better in the primeagra. A good percentage of my paphs are in primeagra because of this. Perhaps if I used the smaller grade of hydroton I 'd see a negligible difference. I use mainly the coarser grade hydroton, I have that at hand. Maybe the finer grade hydroton would perform as well as the primeagra, but I've not experimented with it.

 

[bwester]

What medium are you using now??

4 parts fine chc
2 parts rockwool
2 parts fine aliflor
1 part med aliflor
1 part charcoal
2 parts lava rock

 

[IdahoOrchid]

Has anyone ever tried lava as a growing medium for s/h? I know that in the smaller sizes there is the compaction issue, but what about the larger sizes? Has anyone ever at least done a wicking experiment?

I know that lava in my bonsai mixes sure helps keep the soil damp a lot longer than just bark does.

 

[Candace]

Lava doesn't wick much at all, so isn't the best choice for s/h.. that said cattleyas will grow in most anything and aren't too picky. If you've got it already, try it with some hardier genera. I would suggest using the "good stuff" on your paphs and phrags.

 

[IdahoOrchid]

Lava doesn't wick much at all, so isn't the best choice for s/h.. that said cattleyas will grow in most anything and aren't too picky. If you've got it already, try it with some hardier genera. I would suggest using the "good stuff" on your paphs and phrags.

It seems the jury is still out on whether the new stuff is the good stuff???

 

[Candace]

True.... I'm glad I've got the old primeagra to recycle.

 

[couscous74]

Lava is also heavy as hell...

 

[johnndc]

Actually, I've had great success with lava. I now mix it into most of my semi-hydro blends. I've tried Ray's stuff, then hydroton (which didn't stay nearly wet enough, though it wasn't bad for catts (for that very reason)), then I bought a big 40 pound bag of leca or whatever from Crop King - I swear it looks just like Ray's stuff to me. Anyway, used ONLY lava, pretty large pieces at that, with two "Sharry Baby"s that love it. Have a lava/hydroton mix for a few catts, that love it. I've also used smaller lava I got from tindara, I think, and mixed it with either small hydroton from Tindara or the Crop King stuff for a number of paph seedlings, large papsh and phrags, also threw in some small sized diatomite. Michael Koopowitz loving it, jason fischer, loving it, lynn-evans goldner, ditto. I've not used pure lava for anything other than the two Sharry Babys, I'm pretty sure. But mixing it with the other stuff has been great.

 

[gonewild]

Has anyone ever tried lava as a growing medium for s/h? I know that in the smaller sizes there is the compaction issue, but what about the larger sizes? Has anyone ever at least done a wicking experiment?

I know that lava in my bonsai mixes sure helps keep the soil damp a lot longer than just bark does.

I think Ray has published many wicking tests using different materials on his website. As I recall he included lava in those tests. Lava will wick to some degree but not enough to supply the plants total needs.

I have tested pumice side by side with PA and found in 4"tall pots it wicks very well. It does grow algae very fast. Probably because it is not completely inert.

 

[gonewild]

It seems the jury is still out on whether the new stuff is the good stuff???

The case has not gone to jury yet, we need to gather more evidence.

So far Blake is the only one to post problems with the new PA. Obviously he had a serious problem with the plants he put in it. I have a couple ideas as to what the problems might be but we need to give Blake a chance to answer my other questions and to participate in the discussion.

It would be great if Ray jumped in as well to offer some defense to his product.

Surely more forum members have used the new PA. Let's here your comments, good, bad, or even if you don't notice anything about the new PrimeAgra.

 

[Kyle]

Heres a silly question that I've never seemed asked.

Has anyone tried mixing two different types of LECA. From reading these posts, the new PA wicks to much and hydrotron doesn't wick as much as desired. What about a 50-50 mix?

I have three paphs and 2 phrags in hydrotron for probably 2 years. They do OK, but I think the top is to dry and new roots die. I might try putting a layer of sphag on top to keet that area moist. In hte future I would make my resorvoir deeper then 1 inch.

Kyle

 

[gonewild]

Heres a silly question that I've never seemed asked.

Has anyone tried mixing two different types of LECA. From reading these posts, the new PA wicks to much and hydrotron doesn't wick as much as desired. What about a 50-50 mix?

That could be a possible solution if in fact the new PA is really too wet. But that has not been determined.

But mixing a "too dry" type with a "too wet" type might not work to make a good average and would be way to complicated for most users to manage.

The sad part is that at least in my opinion the old PA was working perfectly.

I have three paphs and 2 phrags in hydrotron for probably 2 years. They do OK, but I think the top is to dry and new roots die. I might try putting a layer of sphag on top to keet that area moist. In hte future I would make my resorvoir deeper then 1 inch.

Kyle

[/QUOTE]

I find the surface of the old PA also too dry for new roots of small seedlings. For this reason we mist often throughout the day. On more established plants the new roots seemed to survive fine. But we still mist them as well.

I think Ray has made mention that he waters daily, so maybe he does not even depend on wicking to keep the total media at the correct level

Won't raising the reservoir level give you a smaller root growing area that is not flooded?

 

[Candace]

I've mixed them but not on purpose. I've repotted a few plants that were growing in primeagra and forgot that I didn't have any more. So the inside of the pot is primeagra and outside is hydroton. Mixing the leca may be a good option if the new PA seems to wet for your liking.


As for the lava, many Hawaiian growers use it because it doesn't absorb much water. They get rain almost every day and the lava keeps the plants from rotting. As for using it for s/h growing, there are much better alternatives out there.

 

[Kyle]

Won't raising the reservoir level give you a smaller root growing area that is not flooded?

Yes. But the 'pots' I am using are plastic beer cups. They have a slight taper, so the resorvoir is actually quite small and doesn't hold much water at all. My 3 paphs all have roots growing into the water. And of course so do the phrags, but thats to be expected.

Putting more thought into the mixing idea, maybe the ratio wouldn't be 50-50. More like 75-25 (more PA) The hydrotron would wick water from the wet PA.

Or hydrotron at the very bottom (in the reservoir) and PA ontop. That way the PA would be limited in the amount of water available to wick. Sure wish I had some PA to play with.

Kyle

 

[Candace]

Maybe Blake's got some he'll part with.:evil:

 

[gonewild]

Yes. But the 'pots' I am using are plastic beer cups. They have a slight taper, so the resorvoir is actually quite small and doesn't hold much water at all. My 3 paphs all have roots growing into the water. And of course so do the phrags, but thats to be expected.

Putting more thought into the mixing idea, maybe the ratio wouldn't be 50-50. More like 75-25 (more PA) The hydrotron would wick water from the wet PA.

Or hydrotron at the very bottom (in the reservoir) and PA ontop. That way the PA would be limited in the amount of water available to wick. Sure wish I had some PA to play with.

Kyle

It certainly could work well mixed. But I think blending it would be most effective. Layering it would be a potting nightmare and would not allow for easy reuse of the media.

But first we need to determine if in fact the new PA is too wet or not. So far there has been only one person report a problem.

 

[gonewild]

:rollhappy:

Maybe Blake's got some he'll part with.:evil:

 

[IdahoOrchid]

I think Ray has published many wicking tests using different materials on his website. As I recall he included lava in those tests.

The materials he did his side by side study with are: TWFKI (a Taiwanese product), Aliflor, PrimeAgra and Stalite. He did not use Hydrotron or lava in any of his testing that I could find.

 

[Candace]

TWFKI (a Taiwanese product) I believe is hydroton. It's marketed under a couple of different names.