Roth slowness

[Eric Muehlbauer]

I currently have 3 roths, 2 are named crosses, 1 is simply a "rothchildianum". 2 are under lights, close to them (NO fluorescents, not T5"s). All are medium to large seedlings, none blooming size. Now, I know roths are supposed to be slow. But I had thought that the newer crosses were supposed to be faster. Well, not mine. These make emersonii look like a speed demon. If you look at any of them, they all look great, all seem to be making growth. Except the growth barely grows. Under lights, they are watered every other day, with a very dilute amount of fertilizer. Haven't measured, but very dilute. In the window greenhouse, getting about the same light as my catts, it had been watered 1/week, fertilized 1/month or less, stronger conc., about the same as what I use on catt's. Now that sunlight is increasing, it might get watered a bit more and fertilized every 2 weeks. They also don't seem to put out the intense root growth I see on philipinense. They don't bloom, but at least they grow a lot. Even my sanderianums grow faster. Any suggestions?

 

[Rick]

How long have you had them?

What are they potted in? Despite all the conjecture/speculation on the pH of serpentine based forest soils, the pH should not be elevated with a bunch of lime based materials.

What is the temperature?

Definitely check on how dilute you really are feeding at.

I don't think they should be slow at all, but maybe stubborn bloomers.

That crazy plant that I had for 12 years would grow new growths to about 10-12 inches fairly fast but then stop and then eat up the oldest growth without blooming and add another growth.

Basket and low K made all the difference with that plant.

I also started with a big multigrowth plant that added growths quickly that got to full size in a year. (All pre low K) and after blooming 2-3 times went into slow burn erwinia. It even cranked out a bunch of stunted flowers on the last few growths.

I have few seedlings from a cross I made that are starting to take off, and just purchased a couple of new seedlings from Carter and Holmes.

They like warm/humid/bright. They root very well in the basket system. Small plants are inhibited by excess food.

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

One of them I have had for several years. It is now about half the size it was when I first got it. The others I've had a year or less. They get K-lite...my guess, is dilute is about 5-10ppm. I did add a little crushed coral to the mix, my standard orchiata/spongerock mix.

 

[ehanes7612]

ten years to BS from flask if grown well....I have yet to hear of any BS plants from Sam's breeding done in the last seven years

 

[Rick]

One of them I have had for several years. It is now about half the size it was when I first got it. The others I've had a year or less. They get K-lite...my guess, is dilute is about 5-10ppm. I did add a little crushed coral to the mix, my standard orchiata/spongerock mix.

If you are using Orchiata I'd definitely get rid of the crushed coral.

5-10 ppm is fine, but it's probably only been fairly recent that you've been at that low a rate. My handful of older seedlings (pre low K, and feed rates at 50+ppm N) took quite a few months to get the roots back on and show some significant signs of life. Do you have a conductivity meter? At 5-10ppm in mostly RO water you should be down to an EC of ~80uS/cm.

Also the last time we talked about plant problems you mentioned that you had low humidity conditions. You may need to tent these guys up to boost the humidity to get them happy.

 

[Justin]

could also just be these are slow clones. in an given cross there is a bell curve of a few very fast clones, a lot of medium growing clones, and a few very slow clones.

you can control the conditions and all the advice above is good, but sometimes it is also luck of the draw. that's why i like to grow from flasks when possible.

in my less-than-ideal conditions it is taking about 8-10 years to flower roths from flask (my first crop is just about ready to start spiking now-it has been a long wait!)

 

[Stone]

Serpentine soils have a low Ca to Mg ratio so the flora evolved on them can get by on lower Ca ( or are more efficient in its use) Perhaps lowering the Ca or raising Mg might help. I have ditched the Limestone type supplementation altogether and have been keeping things a lot wetter with definite improvement. Keep your mix on the acid side rather than alkaline. If you use Calcium nitrate I would get rid of any further alkalizing materials. My roths are all still yougsters but they resond very well to a light sprinkle of osmocote, with an occasional boost of Cal nitrate and Mag sulphate or k-lite is also fine. I still prefer at least half of the N to be ammonium. They can take quite high EC without setback IMO.
All of this dependent on the temp of course.

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

I'll repot them...one of them is overdue anyway. I'll have to pay more attention to my smallest seedling...it may be growing faster than I think. From flask? Never...I'd like to have a chance at bloom in my lifetime.