semi hydro dabblings

[Ernie]

Okay, it's been a while and I'm still likin' this SH stuff. I can have my two year old son water and he can't mess up... unless the holes are aiming onto the floor... "Look dad, your flowers pee too!" My wife does okay with it too. Seeing roots on the sec Barbata hybrids and Coryos that went into lava pebbles finally and the phals are going absolutely apes#$% in lava pebbles. The results with HygroStone are good too, but it dries out very slowly in pots over about 20 oz in my conditions and looks like phals don't send their roots down as deep into it as they do in lava pebbles. NOT TO SAY I DON'T LIKE THE HYGROSTONE! It has its applications! One just has to understand and adapt to limitations. Ray put it very well above I think. Using ungraded HygroStone in smaller pots where the lava pebbles are too big and using it in shallower pots for instance. It works well in our less humid areas (windowsills at work and home for instance). Grading it for larger pots would help too. So would using a shallower reservoir (holes closer to the pot bottoms). We had some pretty sad looking phals that have made a startling recovery in SH, BUT they probably would have perked up even if we repotted them into the same bark mix blend they were in. So... we'll keep watching to see how they do. Tips here to prevent salt buildup etc have been very useful. Namely, not letting them get bone dry (to keep excess salts in solution instead of crusting up the rocks) and watering to the tops of the pots each time. Not a single plant has gone backwards in health since potting into SH... Stay tuned. Cheers!

-Ernie

 

[NYEric]

Thanx for the info.

 

[SlipperFan]

I'm staying tuned.

 

[terryros]

I have 23 Paphs (mostly seedlings or first bloomers) and 12 Phrags (seedlings/first bloomers) in Hydroton, many for almost a year, that I grow indoors under fluorescent lights. I have lost 2 small Paph seedlings to rot about a year ago. I have bloomed 8 Paphs for their first bloom and 5 Phrags. Right now, everything looks healthy and is growing pretty well. For me in my environment, I have found that I need a labor intensive approach which is that I water almost every day with RO water containing Green Jungle fertilizer in an amount that comes out to about 125 ppm N. I use azalea pots with plenty of holes on the bottom and each pot sits elevated a little in a plastic saucer. I water from the top so that there is about 1/2 inch of water in the saucer when I am done, just barely covering the bottom holes. The roots are therefore getting fresh solution vert frequently. The fluid evaporates a good amount by the next watering. I do this because I want the roots to receive constant moisture but I don't want things to be so wet that I will get rot. This makes sure there is lots of air at the roots most of the time. I also have found that I have a lot less trouble moving all orchids (including Catts and Phals) to Hydroton with this technique. I think my concept is that the use of LECA is not some radical new miracle but just the use of a medium that both holds water but is well draining and doesn't break down, making repotting a lot nicer.

My total collection of orchids is at 98. I probably can't imagine using my procedure with a very large collection because it would take a lot of time and attention to watering. However, with a modest sized collection like mine, particularly if you like to be obsessive and look at each plant on a frequent basis, the process is great!

 

[JeanLux]

very interesting Terryros, your method seems to work pretty well!!! Any pics to show?? Jean

 

[T.paph]

For the last 3 years, I've been growing my Paphs,Phrags and Phals. in s/h (hydroton). It is working well for me if I followed these rules.

- wash the medium very well.
- use as small pots as possible.
- try not to let the old root sitting directy in the water part.
- get them to develop new roots as soon as possible (I try to pot them when they are active. )
- repot agian when I start seeing lots of new roots, also cut off some of the old roots, sometime all them. Put them back in the same pot size.
- seedlings are responded faster than the mature plants.

Now all my Paphs, Phrags and some Phals are in s/h.

 

[terryros]

I think that T.paph's experience is very similar to my experience.

I wash the heck (repeatedly) out of the medium for days before I pot with it.

I want the roots constantly seeing fresh water/fertilizer solution so that they are not experiencing changes in pH or salt concentration. Plants that are in a growth phase are better at putting out new roots into the new medium.

I think a humid greenhouse is a different set of circumstances from my in-home plant room which is somewhat drier. This probably leads to my need to water more frequently. I don't want the LECA to dry out or have no fluid in each plant's saucer. In a humid greenhouse you could probably go longer between waterings but you would still want fresh fluid going down through the media on a regular basis.

When I have some algae starting to build up in a saucer, I just replace it with a clean saucer and wash the old ones in bleach solution.

I think the unknown part about growing in LECA is whether there are some few things, in small amounts that are produced by living organisms in organic material. For example, do mosses create amines that are short lived but beneficial for some growth? Do fungi in some media produce symbiotically beneficial products that aren't in any complete fertilizer? I know that at Orchids Limited, they are finding some Phrags that clearly do better growing in diatomite, standing in solution, but that the ones that develop green moss growing on top do even better or that some that have a little bit of bark mixed in do better. These things hint at some additional benefit from other organisms that I am not getting in my conditions. They will get blooms better, faster, and with awards. I just hope my plants will live and bloom. If I buy good plants to start with I should be happy.

 

[Elena]

After reading this thread I put my Phrag Jason Fischer in SH today as an experiment. I figured it would less hassle than a pot with a separate saucer of water.

Here's what it looks like. If something looks like it could be improved on then please let me know

 

[Gilda]

I have had successes and failures with paphs in SH , and do not understand why they all weren't successes.

For instance , I had Paph Milmanni, that was divisble in 2007, so ech div. went into seperate pots. Same size div, same size pots , same everything !

Wondering why some of these paphs are in suspended animation(not growing). I have been unpotting these paphs, and have been shocked and disappointed . The Paph Milmanni divs. , one div had great roots growing right down into the reservoir,no new growths , the other
div. had very little root growth , but had a new little side growth. :sob: The bloom is off the rose with me growing paphs in semi hydro. I am looking for a better mousetrap. Any in home growers care to share your secrets ?

Phals do GREAT for me and I will continue SH for them....at this point I can't recommend SH for paphs even though I have some doing great.

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

Well, my SH experience goes into 2 categories....death, or spectacular growth. At this point, (aside from some losers I am just killing slowly when I should just throw them out) I have 3 plants that are really thriving in SH...1 phrag, 1 catt, and 1 phal....the catt and Phal are the only ones I've tried in SH, the phrag is the only happy one of of many that I tried...but I must say, that while it doesn't always work for me, when it works, it does work! Take care, Eric

 

[cnycharles]

After reading this thread I put my Phrag Jason Fischer in SH today as an experiment. I figured it would less hassle than a pot with a separate saucer of water.

Here's what it looks like. If something looks like it could be improved on then please let me know

Hello Elena,
I couldn't quite tell from the picture, but how high up from the bottom are the first set of holes? Ray B. advocates usually having only an inch or so of reservoir on the bottom. Of course other people's results may vary depending on their growing climate

 

[Ray]

A little trick I have considered, but have only employed recently on the suggestion of another grower, is the application of bottom heat when getting plants acclimated to S/H.

I bought an inexpensive 17 watt heater that fits perfectly with a standard nursery tray, and by setting the pots on it, the plants seem to take root in an accelerated fashion.

I have frequently warned people of the evaporative cooling effect of the nice, airy medium, and the negative for phals grown on the cool side, so a horticultural heating pad seems like a good addition for winter months, but it never occurred to me to that it might have broader application.

 

[jjkOC]

I am resurrecting this thread because I am very interested to find out which specific Phrags consistently do well in S/H. Perhaps with a high enough number of responders we might identify those Phrags that will perform well in S/H in a variety of growing conditions/regions?

 

[e-spice]

I am resurrecting this thread because I am very interested to find out which specific Phrags consistently do well in S/H. Perhaps with a high enough number of responders we might identify those Phrags that will perform well in S/H in a variety of growing conditions/regions?

Phrags are my favorites.

I have yet to consistently grow straight besseae well in S/H conditions but besseae hybrids generally do very well for me. Examples would be Don Wimber (besseae x Eric Young), Mem. **** Clements (besseae x sargentianum), Jason Fischer (besseae x Mem. **** Clements), Fox Valley Fireball (Rosalie Dixler x Barbara Leann).

The long petaled, caudatum hybrids can do okay if they have longifolium in them. Grande (caudatum x longifolium) and Devil Fire (Grande x warcewiczianum) grow well for me. Long petaled species tend to grow better on the dry side so you need to pair it with something that likes water (like longifolium) to grow them successfully in S/H conditions.

Hope this helps.

 

[Ray]

I'm a pretty bad "orchid dad", as I go through spurts of inattention and spurts of smothering my plants.

I bartered a bunch of pots for an assortment of phrag seedlings from Orchid Babies a few years ago, potted them all into 3.5" S/H pots and basically ignored them. Yeah, they got watered when everything else did, but if the went dry faster, then Oops! they stayed dry for a while. Some of those pots display quite a deposit on the top of the medium as a result. Yet the plants are growing nicely - some have bloomed - and are leaping for the sky. (Many have been moved up in pot size recently, and as I have become "rekindled" in my interest in slippers, they are getting better care now.

Like Geff, there are a lot of besseae hybrids in that group, but I have done well with the straight species, as well. I have not had issues with any phrag I've ever put into S/H.

My paphs, however, make the phrags look like wooses. I usually move them into s/h just after blooming (although they don't seem to care when you do so), and that very next growth is typically good, but not anything significantly different from the prior, "traditional-culture" growth. Subsequent years are a whole different story, and I typically see the new growths being 50%-100% larger than they had been, and get a greater number of new growth per cycle.

 

[Ernie]

Jennifer,

You could grow any phrag in s/h IMO. Green, orange, pink, brown, or otherwise. Ours are all doing great. Of course folks will chime in to the contrary. But that's usually due to differences in all the other variables. Your best bet is to try one or a couple. Now's a great time to repot in general, so go for it!

Consider this... we "know" in traditional bark culture, that the caudatum types like to grow a little drier than the besseae hybrids. Well, in bark culture, Cattleyas like to go dry briefly before being watered, right? Our Cattleyas in s/h get watered deeply several times a week now (hot, bright weather is upon us) and misted heavily every day and they have never been happier. The Catts are grown just as wet as the paphs, phrags, phals, catasetinae... Even though we're growing wet, it's the vast amount of air available at the roots in s/h that makes the difference IMO.

It's all a matter of understanding your conditions. Folks growing caudatum-type phrags in big bark might water once a day; someone else in fine bark one every week; and another person in NZ sphag once every other week. In s/h, simply water no later than when the reservoir is nearly (not completely) dry- more often is totally fine, especially in bright, warm weather. When you do water, fill the container to the top, not just to the level of the drainage holes.

No matter what you choose to do, I think Jim Toomey's signature says something like "be an observant grower..." That's great advice. No two peoples' grow conditions are identical- like our orchid fingerprints. You just have to experiment, have fun, and know when to make changes. I think you'll enjoy s/h. Pick a couple plants and give it a try.

There is TONS of info to get you started and keep you going on Ray's web site. And you might want to get a hold of the spring (Apr May Jun) 2011 Orchid Digest.

 

[Rick]

I agree that there is probably no reason that any phrag species or hybrid cannot be grown SH.

One thing that has improved my results is to add a thin layer of finely chopped
sphagnum on top of the media.

And keep the nutrient levels low (i.e be stingy with fertilizer).

 

[Ray]

And keep the nutrient levels low (i.e be stingy with fertilizer).

Yep. I have backed off from 125 ppm N to something more like 75, and they seem to be doing quite well. Do keep in mind that like Ernie, I water frequently, so while the concentration may be low, the mass of nutrients to which the plants are exposed is still sufficient.

 

[jjkOC]

Thanks everyone for your replies for this resurrected thread. I have one Psychopsis in S/H, I used the heating pad technique recommended by Ray to help with the transition. It seems to be growing fine, but it's still a young plant and I'll have to wait and see how it matures.

I water often, not letting the reservoir get more than 1/2 empty and I fill up (in a bucket) the S/H container to the top of the medium with RO water, wait 10 min and then let the excess drain out through the holes. I use rubber bands to seal the holes so that water doesn't drip out of the reservoir when I put the plant back in its place.

I see from Ray and Ernie's experience that many Phrag hybrids/spp can do well in S/H. But, I also wanted to hear from others, who observed some, but not all of their Phrags doing well. Perhaps there's a trend that could be detected?

Well, I am very encouraged to try the remainder of my S/H on a Phrag. and see how that goes. Any other suggestions on easy and compact Phrag hybrids?

Thanks again e-spice, Ernie and Ray for sharing your great experiences!

 

[Ray]

I recommend against filling/waiting/draining.

Watering achieves several things: it provides moisture and nutrition, it draws fresh air down into the medium, it flushes plant wastes and fertilizer residues from the medium, and refreshes the chemistry of the reservoir. Plants emit chemicals into their root environments as normal physiological activities, and emit compensatory ions when absorbing fertilizers, and all of that accumulates in the medium and remaining solution. If you fill rapidly to the top when you water, allowing it to simultaneously drain, you tend to "push" all of that out. If you block the holes and fill, you mix good with bad, and when that drains, you still have a lot of the "bad" in there.

Maybe it's not a huge issue, but to me it just seems to be a better procedure.