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Eric Muehlbauer
Guest
I tried several phrags...all hybrids, but 1 bessea, in SH. In the end, all died or did poorly except for Mt Fallu, which has been repotted into a 1 gal pot. This one thrives in SH.
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bullsie
Well-Known Member
I've been growing all my Phrags in s/h since I acquired my first in 2008, a Noirmont. I'd been using Dynagro and MSU for well water and all have been doing good.
Since acquiring some Paphs this water/fertilizing wasn't making the grade so I've gone to spring water and rain water with Dynagro and a dabbling of Epsom salts. This has resulted in accelerated growth by the Phrags. The Phrags are in hydropellets (from Holland). I rinse them in plain water and pot. I do change the medium every other year when the algae gets to be too heavy. So they are not in the original pellets more than two years.
I have all Phrags, many Catts, some odds and ends of species in s/h presently. I hope to move a few Paphs over to see how they do. Just starting into Paphs I have been hesitant to make too quick a change. For the Catts, I do let them dry out a bit through the winter months, just enough to let the reservoir go dry. Otherwise, all reservoirs are kept full - I will let them go low, even for the Phrags. But watering is a flush technique with water running everywhere.
The rain water from the roof of the house is the only one I worry about as I live near quite a few power plants. I do try for the spring water as much as possible. Two sources I use are a cistern catch tank and the other is when it bubbles out of the ground - which also includes the little 'bits' that go with it. When it does bubble out of the ground its during rainy weather and field run off trickles along with it. Always a possibility that animal waste makes up some of those bits. How much of an effect then it has been having on the Phrags I cannot say. But am pleased with the results of the water change.
I'm trying some Pleuros now in s/h. So far so good, but still too early to tell. I'd like to one day try a besseae in it also and see how that goes. But, that is a future endeavor!
Since acquiring some Paphs this water/fertilizing wasn't making the grade so I've gone to spring water and rain water with Dynagro and a dabbling of Epsom salts. This has resulted in accelerated growth by the Phrags. The Phrags are in hydropellets (from Holland). I rinse them in plain water and pot. I do change the medium every other year when the algae gets to be too heavy. So they are not in the original pellets more than two years.
I have all Phrags, many Catts, some odds and ends of species in s/h presently. I hope to move a few Paphs over to see how they do. Just starting into Paphs I have been hesitant to make too quick a change. For the Catts, I do let them dry out a bit through the winter months, just enough to let the reservoir go dry. Otherwise, all reservoirs are kept full - I will let them go low, even for the Phrags. But watering is a flush technique with water running everywhere.
The rain water from the roof of the house is the only one I worry about as I live near quite a few power plants. I do try for the spring water as much as possible. Two sources I use are a cistern catch tank and the other is when it bubbles out of the ground - which also includes the little 'bits' that go with it. When it does bubble out of the ground its during rainy weather and field run off trickles along with it. Always a possibility that animal waste makes up some of those bits. How much of an effect then it has been having on the Phrags I cannot say. But am pleased with the results of the water change.
I'm trying some Pleuros now in s/h. So far so good, but still too early to tell. I'd like to one day try a besseae in it also and see how that goes. But, that is a future endeavor!
jjkOC
Well-Known Member
Thanks Eric and bullsie for sharing your experiences. It would be great to see how besseae does with your water mixes bullsie.
I think a few others have mentioned benefit from Magnesium sulfate (Epsom) amendment every so often. I'll have to try this!
I think a few others have mentioned benefit from Magnesium sulfate (Epsom) amendment every so often. I'll have to try this!
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goldenrose
Guest
try, try again ...
... and you'll succeed! This is one of the Alocasias I got from Ernie, was it just a few weeks ago?
Alocasia nebula 'Imperialis' topside.
underside of leaf.
... and you'll succeed! This is one of the Alocasias I got from Ernie, was it just a few weeks ago?
Alocasia nebula 'Imperialis' topside.
underside of leaf.
chrismende
Well-Known Member
chrismende
Well-Known Member
Nice plant! Must go to your website, Ernie! And try it in S/H when I get one or two...
I used Grodon Gardening Imports "Potting Pebbles" (the clay balls) for years and realized they didn't wick for phrags. I bought real little ones like tapioca size and phraglings just out of phlasks liked those. I've gone back to regular mix and add peat to the mix. The phraglings like peat added to the mix too. Two big surprises this year . . . in the basement the plants I've gotten from Oak Hill mounted have the nicest root growth of what I grow. . . Secondly, Marathon battles:viking: mealy, just topdress them all, the streptocarpus volunteer to write their eulogies but that should be in another post . . .
Dot, do you still use straight diatomite in clay pots for some phrags? jungle fever
Dot, do you still use straight diatomite in clay pots for some phrags? jungle fever
I suppose I could take some shots of current plants, but have nothing to compare them to, as I didn't take and plant photos earlier. I just might have to do that in the future.
I had a discussion with another semi-hydro grower just yesterday, and he told me he never had any success with paphs in S/H. He uses the "Luwassa" or "Leni" pots exclusively. He and I compared notes a bit, and I can only conclude that it's an issue with not flushing the pots.
With the use of my "deli-container" pot design, if you water properly - filling the pot rapidly to the top and letting it drain down to the reservoir level - you flush mineral and plant waste residues from the pot at every watering, and return the "pot chemistry" to your initial solution formulation. With the 3-component-type design, watering is primarily a matter of "topping it up" so the gauge gets to your preferred level, so unless you lift the culture pot out of the outer one and manually flush it periodically, who knows what the chemical environment becomes?
Very early in this thread, Dot mentioned that after about 3 years of S/H growth, she noticed her phrags declining. When she and I met last year, she acknowledged that even using my pot design, she only 'topped up" the reservoir, which obviously doesn't flush the pot.
We know that phrags have "purity issues", but apparently - from what I heard yesterday - the same is true of paphs, but maybe not so extreme.
Whenever I get such a tidbit of info, I like to relate it to traditional culture, to see if I can make some sense out of the observation.
I have expressed before my thoughts that orchid potting media in general have almost no cation exchange capacity - certainly compared to soils where the majority is related to raw clay inclusions - but there is no doubt in my mind that the organic matter in traditional media do provide some CEC (at relatively little as it may be), and the charcoal will adsorb pollutants as well, so probably provides a bit of "protection" to the plant by sequestering the bad stuff - and then we throw it away periodically.
The fired clay pellets have almost zero CEC, so it makes sense that flushing will be more important.
Does that seem logical to you'all?
Another observation: several years ago, I put 300 Oncidium Sharry Baby and 300 Phal. Lemforde White Beauty plants in S/H culture. Half of each got watered with my regular regimen - 2x or 3x/week in summer, maybe once a week in winter - and the other half got watered daily. After 6 months, the daily group was observably larger than the others. My explanation leans on two possible factors: the daily group had the pot chemistry returned to "target" on a more-frequent basis, removing the pollutants, and/or they got more nutrition, considering they got a "meal a day", rather than every few days.
With the use of my "deli-container" pot design, if you water properly - filling the pot rapidly to the top and letting it drain down to the reservoir level - you flush mineral and plant waste residues from the pot at every watering, and return the "pot chemistry" to your initial solution formulation. With the 3-component-type design, watering is primarily a matter of "topping it up" so the gauge gets to your preferred level, so unless you lift the culture pot out of the outer one and manually flush it periodically, who knows what the chemical environment becomes?
Very early in this thread, Dot mentioned that after about 3 years of S/H growth, she noticed her phrags declining. When she and I met last year, she acknowledged that even using my pot design, she only 'topped up" the reservoir, which obviously doesn't flush the pot.
We know that phrags have "purity issues", but apparently - from what I heard yesterday - the same is true of paphs, but maybe not so extreme.
Whenever I get such a tidbit of info, I like to relate it to traditional culture, to see if I can make some sense out of the observation.
I have expressed before my thoughts that orchid potting media in general have almost no cation exchange capacity - certainly compared to soils where the majority is related to raw clay inclusions - but there is no doubt in my mind that the organic matter in traditional media do provide some CEC (at relatively little as it may be), and the charcoal will adsorb pollutants as well, so probably provides a bit of "protection" to the plant by sequestering the bad stuff - and then we throw it away periodically.
The fired clay pellets have almost zero CEC, so it makes sense that flushing will be more important.
Does that seem logical to you'all?
Another observation: several years ago, I put 300 Oncidium Sharry Baby and 300 Phal. Lemforde White Beauty plants in S/H culture. Half of each got watered with my regular regimen - 2x or 3x/week in summer, maybe once a week in winter - and the other half got watered daily. After 6 months, the daily group was observably larger than the others. My explanation leans on two possible factors: the daily group had the pot chemistry returned to "target" on a more-frequent basis, removing the pollutants, and/or they got more nutrition, considering they got a "meal a day", rather than every few days.
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Ernie
Guest
Rose, Lookin' good! Isn't such fast growth refreshing? 
Alocasias are pretty constant feeders when it's warm, be sure to fert weakly weekly with them consistently. Slow release stuff works too, ~1/2 tsp for each of those cups should keep them going gangbusters.
Alocasias are pretty constant feeders when it's warm, be sure to fert weakly weekly with them consistently. Slow release stuff works too, ~1/2 tsp for each of those cups should keep them going gangbusters.
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Ernie
Guest
I can probably take some pix of some catts and zygopetalinae intergenerics where it's very clear which growths grew up in bark and which in s/h. Will try to put it on the list for the weekend...
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goldenrose
Guest
Definitely refreshing! I'm quite certain the 55 degree winter nights in the GH was my downfall when it came to success with S/H. The second alocasia plug, reginula 'Black Velvet' is not showing roots thru like this one but after knocking the pot over it was one way to find out!Rose, Lookin' good! Isn't such fast growth refreshing?
Next step - undirt the other 2!They're located across from the bog garden so with both being right off the GH, the alocasia will be on the same fert schedule as the orchids, although the slow release sounds good too!
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Ernie
Guest
reginula 'Black Velvet' is slower than nebula 'Imperialis', but once reginula starts going, it sends up lots of pups! I forgot the other two you got... lauterbachiana and something?
One thing about repotting elephant ears- never throw away the old dirt! I always put the old media in another pot for a month or three just to make sure nothing sprouts up, or you can sift through it looking for corms to plant with the mama plant or individually. Dang, even if the plant loses its leaves and gets all nasty, I still dry them out for a week or so then replant. Many times they come back. Crazy things.
One thing about repotting elephant ears- never throw away the old dirt! I always put the old media in another pot for a month or three just to make sure nothing sprouts up, or you can sift through it looking for corms to plant with the mama plant or individually. Dang, even if the plant loses its leaves and gets all nasty, I still dry them out for a week or so then replant. Many times they come back. Crazy things.
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goldenrose
Guest
Good memory!!! The other was Hilo Bold. I did it, I unearthed them this morning! Both looked like they were plugs potted up not to long ago, lauterbachiana had a pretty good root system & Hilo has lots of little plantlets around it.
When I switched the other 2 over I did find 2 corms & potted them up!
When I switched the other 2 over I did find 2 corms & potted them up!
Sorry to bump this with another simple question. What CF/EC are people using for their fert solutions? Others have quoted N ppms but that doesn't mean much to me, I'm afraid. I'm very wary of using a solution that is too strong.
Paul, the problem when trying to control with EC is that the final reading is controlled by three individual parameters - the water chemistry, the specific fertilizer formulation, and the concentration in which it is used. So unless all three are identical to what you have, someone else's recommendation is of questionable value.
As examples, in the AOS article in which the "MSU Fertilizers" were introduced, they recommended 125 ppm N. To achieve that concentration, the RO formula will give an EC of 1.0 mS/cm (assuming the water itself is 0), while the "Well Water" formula will add 0.85 mS/cm to whatever the water contributes.
I have used the RO formula at 125 ppm N for about 8 years now, but have decided to back off to about 75, as I have increased my watering frequency to about every other day. It's really easy to determine the amount of fertilizer to use - dividing 10 by the %N on the label gives you the teaspoons per gallon for 125 ppm N. Or divide 13 by the %N for ml/liter.
As examples, in the AOS article in which the "MSU Fertilizers" were introduced, they recommended 125 ppm N. To achieve that concentration, the RO formula will give an EC of 1.0 mS/cm (assuming the water itself is 0), while the "Well Water" formula will add 0.85 mS/cm to whatever the water contributes.
I have used the RO formula at 125 ppm N for about 8 years now, but have decided to back off to about 75, as I have increased my watering frequency to about every other day. It's really easy to determine the amount of fertilizer to use - dividing 10 by the %N on the label gives you the teaspoons per gallon for 125 ppm N. Or divide 13 by the %N for ml/liter.
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