Slipper Orchid Conservation Classification

[Rick]

Not quite. I think it is very important to try to preserve habitat. But if we don't address population explosion, I don't see that habitat being preserved for very long. People have a way of taking what they need to survive.
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Are golf courses needed for survival? How much of our lifestyle is needed for "survival" as opposed to just maximizing experience of life (or standard of living)?

The human footprint has grown disproportionately with population growth. Certainly in "developed" countries.

When we buy luxury teak or mahogany furniture in the US are we doing so out of a sense of altruism for the starving indigenous of Borneo or New Guinea (who are actually getting displaced by starving Malaysians), or do we just want more cool stuff?

I'll admit that I don't want to give up electricity, cars, orchids... and all the modern wonders of stuff I can get, but where's the prayer of thanks for the sacrifices of Mother Earth to put this stuff in our lap?

We aren't entitled to anything (although we act like we are), but shouldn't we at least think about were all this stuff is coming from, and give serious consideration on how to keep the pipeline sustainable?

 

[Rick]

I teach that stuff in my Biology courses 101 (general Biology) ans 215 (Ecology) and I am surprised that so few people realize how critical the problem of overpopulation is. Google for "world population clock" and youe will get a UN site ... just sit and look at the clock for one minute .... and you will understand.

Mankind is committing suicide .... and killing this planet while doing it .....

I think most people do understand and realize this at least intuitively. They would prefer to keep their heads in the sand or feel overwhelmed as individuals. I see the general world politics splitting into two basic camps. "Grab all you can and save yourself" or "women and children to the lifeboats". Whether or not the masses understand the biological implications of overpopulation, more and more are acting out under the two different basic attitudes of species under overpopulation presures.

The principles are same for bacteria to monkeys, but as I've said before, we are supposedly smarter than monkeys.

 

[Paphman910]

........

The principles are same for bacteria to monkeys, but as I've said before, we are supposedly smarter than monkeys.

Hopefully humans don't follow the same fate as bacteria population in a petri dish!

Paphman910

 

[gonewild]

The principles are same for bacteria to monkeys, but as I've said before, we are supposedly smarter than monkeys.

Smarter than monkeys until we try to live in their environment, then we flip towards bacteria for brains.

 

[Rick]

3. Encourage the ex situ proliferation of orchids (and any other plants) 4. Then maybe trade restriction measures of wild collected plants can be installed. Something "similar" to but not like CITES in its current form. And certainly not the way CITES USA policy in "illegalising" flasks where the parentage is "illegal"
The thousands of orchids being plundered by the little men is probably only 0.00001% of all orchids disappeared in government's sponsored deforestation program.

Totally true, but how can ex-situ propagation programs be justified when Xavier says that 99.99999% of collected/exported material is dead, and 99.999% of 1st generation seed propagated material is dead?

We have to generate records and data to the opposite. We have to generate cooperative multi-generational success data with the species we have available to us. Pick a species, start a consortium, produce and distribute AND generate data. Half of us can't even keep our plant tags straight let alone track 3 generations of offspring from multiple parentage. The records have to be publicly available too.

How do you think ANTEC got to be a "rescue center"? They have a demonstrable propagation track record that schmucks like you and me don't have.

1% and Virtual Collection offers a foot in the door to demonstrate serious cooperation to develop a propagation track record and break out of the capitalist shot gun approach that Xavier says is a total failure.

 

[SlipperFan]

Hello Dot,...The Orchid Digest was talking about was the Orchid Guide Digest OGD for a time until now they have truncated it probably much to the chagrin of the Orchid Digest from where you got your reward. So I remember post like this from On Apr 30, 2006, at 6:04 PM,...

Ah -- the OGD. Now the orchids digest. Yes -- I'd forgotten about that post. At least I'm consistent!

I think most people do understand and realize this at least intuitively. They would prefer to keep their heads in the sand or feel overwhelmed as individuals. I see the general world politics splitting into two basic camps. "Grab all you can and save yourself" or "women and children to the lifeboats". Whether or not the masses understand the biological implications of overpopulation, more and more are acting out under the two different basic attitudes of species under overpopulation presures.

The principles are same for bacteria to monkeys, but as I've said before, we are supposedly smarter than monkeys.

I really don't think most people understand this. There is a mentality out there that looks at all the unoccupied land in the American West and says, "Look at all that uncultivated land. We have no population problem. All we have to do is expand out there and till the soil."

Do you really think that most religious leaders, and those that believe in "growth" really want to think there might be a population overgrowth problem? It's not in their interests to control population growth.

See Mark? I'm back to the post you quoted!

 

[Rick]

I really don't think most people understand this. There is a mentality out there that looks at all the unoccupied land in the American West and says, "Look at all that uncultivated land. We have no population problem. All we have to do is expand out there and till the soil."

Do you really think that most religious leaders, and those that believe in "growth" really want to think there might be a population overgrowth problem? It's not in their interests to control population growth.

All that unoccupied land is maxed out desert. If there was water it would be as occupied as the east.

Regardless of whether religious leaders will verbalize a no growth agenda doesn't mean they don't intuitively know its happening. Actually religious and political extremism are symptoms of overcrowding. The history of Easter Island is an interesting example.

Like I said two camps "every man for himself and women and children to the life boats".

 

[SlipperFan]

All that unoccupied land is maxed out desert. If there was water it would be as occupied as the east.

Exactly!!!

...Actually religious and political extremism are symptoms of overcrowding. The history of Easter Island is an interesting example....

I would agree with that!

 

[Braem]

Hopefully humans don't follow the same fate as bacteria population in a petri dish!

Paphman910

Don't hack around at the bacteria ... they have been around for about 3.7 to 3.9 BILLION years .... very successful organisms, and if they weren't there, we would be done with ....

 

[Braem]

Exactly!!!


I would agree with that!

Yes ...

 

[dave b]

We have to generate records and data to the opposite. We have to generate cooperative multi-generational success data with the species we have available to us. Pick a species, start a consortium, produce and distribute AND generate data. Half of us can't even keep our plant tags straight let alone track 3 generations of offspring from multiple parentage. The records have to be publicly available too.

Yes, this is getting to the point. One of the core issues of conservation and environmetal movements is the DATA. Is there any? Is it accurate? How is it interpreted, and whos interpreting it. In many cases this is no small task.

If good data can be aquired for the most threatened species, then studies can be made as to what are the primary threats, and how can they be stopped. Is it logging, agriculture, or overcollection by locals...etc.? What are the demand forces and are there alternatives? Various barriers to overcome could include cultural, economic, education...

Good discussion

 

[Howzat]

Totally true, but how can ex-situ propagation programs be justified when Xavier says that 99.99999% of collected/exported material is dead, and 99.999% of 1st generation seed propagated material is dead?

We have to generate records and data to the opposite. We have to generate cooperative multi-generational success data with the species we have available to us. Pick a species, start a consortium, produce and distribute AND generate data. Half of us can't even keep our plant tags straight let alone track 3 generations of offspring from multiple parentage. The records have to be publicly available too.

How do you think ANTEC got to be a "rescue center"? They have a demonstrable propagation track record that schmucks like you and me don't have.

1% and Virtual Collection offers a foot in the door to demonstrate serious cooperation to develop a propagation track record and break out of the capitalist shot gun approach that Xavier says is a total failure.

Rick, I am still firm on the idea of ex situ propagation, as one of the best way to conserve orchid species. Look at sanderianum, rothschildianum to mention a few. If it was not for the effort of Terry Root, you can be sure that there would not be any sanderianum/rothschildianum left in wild in Serawak and Sabah. I am sure he had more than 90% success rate
You don't have to accept what Xavier said about nearly all 99.9999% of wild collected and 99.999% of seedlings propagated ex situ died. If it sounds BS, perhaps "Roth" can make explanation to his claim. I certainly have had more success in growing my propagated seedlings than the 0.001% success rate he claimed.