brown rot pandemic

[NYEric]

You cant just walk into a store and get Cipro.

 

[Rick]

So it should better to use SC M???

Probably if you think that probiotics will do it for you. My results were very mixed back in 2008 when I was still using high K fertilizer.

I also think if the chemical environment (TDS mix) of your substrate is poor to start with, then it won't make a difference. Especially in the long term.

So I think best bet is to get a TDS meter, flush pots down to as low as they will get, innoculate, and then feed at much lower rates than previous to keep TDS at bay.

 

[Erythrone]

Hello!
I hope I can help you. My problem was similar for more than 2 years, I thought that I give up dealing with orchids because this problem. I tried everything, drier conditions, cinnamon, Cu, every fungicides, all of were insufficient. This diseases killed many of my catts, eg. dowiana rosita ( I was very sad...), symptoms were similar: all of new growths turned to black and died. All of new, otherwise healthy plants were put in my greenhouse showed the sign of diseases within few days: started new growts rotted black within a week.
After reading many of articles I accused Pseudomonas , it is a bacteria wich is resistent against fungicides, of course, spreads with water ( even by humidifier, tha explains rapid spreading)quickly.
After than I spayed my plants with ciprofloxacine and using 1,5 ml/l NaOCl 5% solution for desinfecting water. Symptoms disappeared within a week and can't be seen in my culture for more than a year.

IMO antibiotist should be used only for humain disease... Antibiotic resistance poses a significant problem.

 

[TyroneGenade]

IMO antibiotist should be used only for humain disease... Antibiotic resistance poses a significant problem.

I am of similar opinion, but the advice you gave, dodidoki, is still good. Seems my original idea of spraying everything down with dilute H2O2 was a good one.

Pseudomonas are naturally antibiotic resistant. Any bacterium is resistant to at least 2 antibiotics so a medical treatment for them is normally a cocktail of 3 antibiotics. Not a good idea for plants...

I will proceed with H2O2 spraying as well as a little bleach in the water. When you say 1.5 mL 5% bleach, to what volume is that 1.5 mL added?

Thanks

 

[dodidoki]

I am of similar opinion, but the advice you gave, dodidoki, is still good. Seems my original idea of spraying everything down with dilute H2O2 was a good one.

Pseudomonas are naturally antibiotic resistant. Any bacterium is resistant to at least 2 antibiotics so a medical treatment for them is normally a cocktail of 3 antibiotics. Not a good idea for plants...

I will proceed with H2O2 spraying as well as a little bleach in the water. When you say 1.5 mL 5% bleach, to what volume is that 1.5 mL added?

Thanks

Oh, yes, 1,5 ml 5% bleach added to one liter.

 

[dodidoki]

Oh, yes, 1,5 ml 5% bleach added to one liter.

I tried peroxide, too, but my opinion it hurts the tip of roots especially in cattleyas. Bleach doesn't do that for a long time.

 

[dodidoki]

IMO antibiotist should be used only for humain disease... Antibiotic resistance poses a significant problem.

Don't worry, I don't use antibiotics regulary, I used only once ( otherwise antibiotics could be toxic for plants, too), after I tried all of usual ways and chemicals and none of them was effective.

 

[TyroneGenade]

I tried peroxide, too, but my opinion it hurts the tip of roots especially in cattleyas. Bleach doesn't do that for a long time.

Thanks! That is good advice. Bleach it will be.

 

[cnycharles]

peroxide and near equivalents have been used on seedlings and cuttings in the misting stage with no damage to any plant part, so it is likely if you were seeing root damage it was at too strong of a concentration (though it definitely isn't out of the question that some plant would rebel against a weak peroxide treatment). I sprayed plants with peroxide directly out of the bottle a few times onto mealybugs (yes, bugs....) and didn't see any damage with the one treatment. at that rate, however, I did some damage to leaves after three applications, but that was also at a higher rate than I had read on the internet to use

 

[Rick]

Thing is things like chlorine bleach and peroxide are general oxidants and go after all life forms (not just pathogenic organisms). Survival is based on how big the organism is, and how much tissue can be burned away without loosing viability.

Plants are pretty big compared to microbes, but it always cracks me up as a toxicologist when I see larval fish getting killed almost instantly at the same low dose of chlorine that we routinely drink (or water our plants with), and we don't even realize that some part of us, or the plant and pot flora that is of beneficial use is getting knocked back too.

We frequently see pathogenic strains of bacteria getting a certain amount of resistance to fairly high doses of chlorine. I see a lot of biology going on in cooling towers were regular or constant applications of biocides (such as chlorine bleach) are employed. Some of the fungi that come out of these environments are particularly scary. I've seen them "decompose" living fish in a matter of hours.

Typically habitats that recieve chronic low doses of biocides end up with really tough scary populations of bugs, that require sporadic heavy "shock treatment" with massive doses of the biocides to knock them back in line.

 

[Erythrone]

Probably if you think that probiotics will do it for you. My results were very mixed back in 2008 when I was still using high K fertilizer.

I also think if the chemical environment (TDS mix) of your substrate is poor to start with, then it won't make a difference. Especially in the long term.

So I think best bet is to get a TDS meter, flush pots down to as low as they will get, innoculate, and then feed at much lower rates than previous to keep TDS at bay.

Many thanks Rick!

 

[TyroneGenade]

Typically habitats that recieve chronic low doses of biocides end up with really tough scary populations of bugs, that require sporadic heavy "shock treatment" with massive doses of the biocides to knock them back in line.

Yeah, in my aquarium I have a population of hair algae which is totally resistant to glutaraldehyde. Thankfully, potassium permanganate still hurts it as does a direct application of 30% H2O2. I'm amazed by how quickly these nasties evolve to cope with what we subject them to.

I've begun dosing with bleach and will continue to do so every 2 days until I stop seeing problems. My Paph Silverlight's new leaf rotted sometime yesterday. It looked fine on Saturday and this morning it was rotted to the base. The plant is still healthy so it should respond with a new growth but if that too rots then that will be the end of it. Grrr! I hope the bleach does the job. At this rate, in a year or so I will have no viable orchids left.

 

[TyroneGenade]

Hello,

A question for dodidoki: how long a period did you continue to water the plants with the bleach? I haven't seen any rotted new growths for a little while now and it looks like some plants may actually manage to get a new growth out now. I am probably going to continue spraying once a week from this point onwards until I'm sure... but would like to know how long it took you to solve the problem you had.

Thanks

 

[TyroneGenade]

Grr! Still spraying/watering with bleach every 2nd or 3rd day and to no avail. My Stanhopea's leaves were perfect yesterday and today they are rotten---only one of the two plants.

I have also been spraying with some extra Ca/Mg (3:1) in the water.

The new growth of my alba philippinense has also rotted off. I'm now very fed-up and have resigned myself to watching the collection slowly die. Whatever survives, well good for it, but it seems I can't win.

 

[dodidoki]

Grr! Still spraying/watering with bleach every 2nd or 3rd day and to no avail. My Stanhopea's leaves were perfect yesterday and today they are rotten---only one of the two plants.

I have also been spraying with some extra Ca/Mg (3:1) in the water.

The new growth of my alba philippinense has also rotted off. I'm now very fed-up and have resigned myself to watching the collection slowly die. Whatever survives, well good for it, but it seems I can't win.

Hello!

Beach solution won't heal the sick plants, especially slippers. Bleach solution ( as I wrote 5% 1,5 ml/ one litre water) only protect healthy plants against rot. I lost many plants, too.
I use it continously not for spraying but I give 3 dl bleach into 200 L rain water holder. I use this water for watering, but I never spray my plant, only two ultrasonic humidifier keep air humidity around 75-80%. Even more I switch of humidifiers after watering till all leaves become dry.

 

[dodidoki]

Problem solved in about 2 months. I haven't seen this problem about one and half year.

 

[TyroneGenade]

Ok, I will keep at it for the next 2 months. My gripe is that these are healthy growths turning rotten. Oh well... at worst this will give me an excuse to start over...

 

[keithrs]

You may want to take a big swing and use a bactericide. I have had success with Phyton 27. Also, I would suggest to dry your plants and growing area out. The more you water the more you'll spread it.

Good luck... It's not easy to rid plants of infections.

 

[Cheyenne]

I was going to suggest to dry them out too. I am sure you know, but I am always surprised how long they can really dry out with no damage. Especially since I try to water every five to seven days. Whenever I get rot I remove the infected tissue and put the plant away from the other ones and let it dry for a few weeks. If I mist or water the plant to soon the rot comes back immediately. But in the cases that I really dry out the plant I can usually get it to stop. Then when I water again things plump up and go back to normal.

 

[cnycharles]

the drying, and if you haven't tried using peroxide, I would. it basically burns up rotten type things and that which causes them and while decomposing gets some oxygen into the system. not that they made need that, but try it out.. take a something that has started to rot and spray it all around with peroxide. there are things online which give rates, but i've dumped straight peroxide on phal growths and had good results