Calcium & magnesium supplementation

[gonewild]

I have been feeding at these lower levels for a couple of years now and looking back, most of the plants seem very healthy. Most are multifloral paphs and species but they do seem to have taken a good couple of years to get to their present stage, when they were nr FS then. We certainly don't get the culture, ie light levels & heat etc in the UK that most others get so I have tried to take precautions in the strength of the feed I give. I will increase the feed to recommended levels & monitor. I use Dyna Gro bloom to lower the PH, which as the Akerne comes out at around 6.2, only takes a few drops, but then to up the PH, I use Dyna Gro Pro-Tekt. When I feed the bloom, which drops the ph to around 4.5 I use the Pro-tekt to bring it back up to around 5.9.

Gary

How often do you feed the Dyna Grow Bloom?

If it's just a few plants that show poor symptoms then it may not be nutrient related. As I said above consider disease or pathogens that are not visible to the eye.

Or since you are supplying basically no ammonium N, try giving some to the symptomatic plants, If that is the problem you will see fast results.

 

[Carper]

I feed the bloom weekly when plants are in spike and flower and add as an adjuster to lower the ph when required. I will add ammonium N to a few select plants to see the effects.

Gary

 

[gonewild]

I feed the bloom weekly when plants are in spike and flower and add as an adjuster to lower the ph when required. I will add ammonium N to a few select plants to see the effects.

Gary

OK based on that look at phosphorous excess.

 

[gonewild]

Do you feed the bloom in addition the the Akrane or just the bloom?

Do all your plants get it or only those in bud or bloom?

I don't like the concept of high phosphorous bloom boosting fertilizer, so I might try to blame it for your problems.

 

[Carper]

Do you feed the bloom in addition the the Akrane or just the bloom?

Do all your plants get it or only those in bud or bloom?

I don't like the concept of high phosphorous bloom boosting fertilizer, so I might try to blame it for your problems.

I never used to feed a bloom fertilizer until I tried it about 18 months ago. First I tried it on a few phals. I only used to get a single spike with no branching. Within a couple of months, 3 that I had were in spike & the 4th put out extra flowers. I got between 3 & 4 branches per spike with bigger and more flowers than before. I then introduced this into my regime and on all paphs that have flowered since, there have been more flowers, with better colour & size. I can only base this on my observations. I will only use the bloom feed as an adjustment with the Akerne. I feed the bloom on it's own with plants in spike and the Akerne also on its own to the rest of the collection. The plants in spike will get the Akerne feed about once per month.

Gary

 

[gonewild]

I never used to feed a bloom fertilizer until I tried it about 18 months ago. First I tried it on a few phals. I only used to get a single spike with no branching. Within a couple of months, 3 that I had were in spike & the 4th put out extra flowers. I got between 3 & 4 branches per spike with bigger and more flowers than before. I then introduced this into my regime and on all paphs that have flowered since, there have been more flowers, with better colour & size. I can only base this on my observations. I will only use the bloom feed as an adjustment with the Akerne. I feed the bloom on it's own with plants in spike and the Akerne also on its own to the rest of the collection. The plants in spike will get the Akerne feed about once per month.

Gary

Two comments to consider..

Phalaenopsis spikes are induced by cool temperature and not nutrient levels.

Increased flower size, increased flower count and branching are all greatly affected (controlled) by auxins (hormones). Is it possible the Bloom booster has added hormones as well as high phosphorous?

Increasing phosphorous has been long thought as a way to improve flowering but it has never really proved out in trials. But if it works for you great.
But consider that to increase phosphorous the correct way is to add extraa phosphouros to your normal fertilizer level. That keeps all the other nutrients at the correct level.
When you stop using the Akrane and only use the Bloom what you are actually doing is creating a nitrogen and calcium defiency rather than just a phosphorous increase. And the high level of phosphorous caan quickly prevent the uptake of micro nutrients. Maybe all this does improve flowering but it has all the potential to hinder future vegitive growth at the same time.

Does that make sense?

 

[SFLguy]

I always strip down the plant and put in fresh medium whenever I purchase any new plant. I check very carefully for pests or any diseases and treat accordingly. Checking my plants on a daily basis, especially as I mainly use clear pots is quite routine and I've not come across any slugs for quite a while. I do think this is down to feeding culture, but it is always good to eliminate all possibilities.

Gary

Could those small slugs be fungus gnat larvae?

 

[gonewild]

Could those small slugs be fungus gnat larvae?

No. Fungus gnat larvae are much smaller than 1cm.

 

[gonewild]

About bloom booster high phosphorous.
This article about roses explains the problem of excess P.
http://www.rose.org/phosphorus-fallacies-too-much-of-a-good-thing/

 

[Stone]

Mike,

The recommended strength for the feed is around 650/700 u/S. I used to feed at these levels but found that the plants seemed to growing just as well at the lower levels. I do lower to around 250/300 u/S through winter due to the british climate. An option may be to increase the feed strength to possibly the recommended levels to increase the N especially as we are approaching spring/summer.

Gary

If you are going to the N, I would increase the N only (preferably with ammonium nitrate because it is all N - if you can get it (I make my own because you can't buy it here any more) or urea)
to give you double the N you are giving now.

Of course this is assuming good temps and light. (summer) I think you will see a big difference generally by doing something like that.
The main reason to increase the N only is to keep the final EC as low as you can..

To add 100ppm of N from AmmSulph., the EC will be 0.96 (dS/m)..(0.47g/L)

To add 100ppm of N from CalNit., the EC will be 0.84..... (0.84g/L)

To add 100ppm from AmmNit., the EC will be 0.51....(0.29g/L)

0.21 g/L of urea will give 100ppm of N and after it converts to ammonium, the EC will increase by 0.31 d/Sm.

So you can see that using ammonium nitrate or Urea is the best for keeping the salinity lower when supplying extra N.

 

[Carper]

Two comments to consider..

Phalaenopsis spikes are induced by cool temperature and not nutrient levels.

Increased flower size, increased flower count and branching are all greatly affected (controlled) by auxins (hormones). Is it possible the Bloom booster has added hormones as well as high phosphorous?

Increasing phosphorous has been long thought as a way to improve flowering but it has never really proved out in trials. But if it works for you great.
But consider that to increase phosphorous the correct way is to add extraa phosphouros to your normal fertilizer level. That keeps all the other nutrients at the correct level.
When you stop using the Akrane and only use the Bloom what you are actually doing is creating a nitrogen and calcium defiency rather than just a phosphorous increase. And the high level of phosphorous caan quickly prevent the uptake of micro nutrients. Maybe all this does improve flowering but it has all the potential to hinder future vegitive growth at the same time.

Does that make sense?

Thanks Lance,

It does make sense so I will try and make any necessary adjustments bearing mind what you have said and other comments made by other members. I don't mind admitting that I do find some of the information and calculations a bit difficult to understand as it can very complicated. My experiments are quite simple and I do "gamble" a little based on my "best guesses" but the plants don't seem to suffer and I've been doing this for about 10 years now. Overall, I can't complain with how my collection looks at the moment, but I'm always striving to be better hence the experiments. I've found slippertalk to give me a great deal of information to think about so thanks all for the contributions.

Thanks all.

Gary

 

[Carper]

If you are going to the N, I would increase the N only (preferably with ammonium nitrate because it is all N - if you can get it (I make my own because you can't buy it here any more) or urea)
to give you double the N you are giving now.

Of course this is assuming good temps and light. (summer) I think you will see a big difference generally by doing something like that.
The main reason to increase the N only is to keep the final EC as low as you can..

To add 100ppm of N from AmmSulph., the EC will be 0.96 (dS/m)..(0.47g/L)

To add 100ppm of N from CalNit., the EC will be 0.84..... (0.84g/L)

To add 100ppm from AmmNit., the EC will be 0.51....(0.29g/L)

0.21 g/L of urea will give 100ppm of N and after it converts to ammonium, the EC will increase by 0.31 d/Sm.

So you can see that using ammonium nitrate or Urea is the best for keeping the salinity lower when supplying extra N.

Thanks Mike.

I do have some mono-ammonium phosphate if that is any good. What would I need to add in with the akerne feed to up the N?

thanks

Gary

 

[gonewild]

Thanks Mike.

I do have some mono-ammonium phosphate if that is any good. What would I need to add in with the akerne feed to up the N?

thanks

Gary

You would be adding a lot of phosphorous.
For each 1ppm of nitrogen you will be adding almost 5ppm of phosphorous.

 

[gonewild]

Thanks Lance,

It does make sense so I will try and make any necessary adjustments bearing mind what you have said and other comments made by other members. I don't mind admitting that I do find some of the information and calculations a bit difficult to understand as it can very complicated. My experiments are quite simple and I do "gamble" a little based on my "best guesses" but the plants don't seem to suffer and I've been doing this for about 10 years now. Overall, I can't complain with how my collection looks at the moment, but I'm always striving to be better hence the experiments. I've found slippertalk to give me a great deal of information to think about so thanks all for the contributions.

Thanks all.
Gary

Hey I've tried lots of nutrient approaches that did not work out so well.
Learn from mistakes and successes, remember both and try again.
That's what makes growing plants interesting.

 

[Stone]

Thanks Mike.

I do have some mono-ammonium phosphate if that is any good. What would I need to add in with the akerne feed to up the N?

MAPh is a good fertilizer but I would not use it unless you need etxra P.

Use urea to increase your N x 50% to 100%. You'll have to work out how much to use. Work out how may ppm of N in your akerne solution and go from there.

 

[Carper]

Hi All,

Just a thought about a previous comment I made. I use the Dyna Gro bloom to decrease the PH from the Akerne PH of around 6.4, (at the recommended strength of around 650 u/S).to 5.9. I know this has a large amount of P which could be contributing to a few of my problems. I have increased the feed today to the recommended rates but still wish to lower the PH to my level. I do have some of the K-lite which is 12-1-1. I noticed that the PH at my strength showed a PH of approx. 4.8 in RO water. Would this be a good alternative to use to lower the PH of my main solution. I tried it this morning and I needed 2 litres of K-lite @ 100 PPM N strength solution added to my 40 litres of Akerne 13-3-15. Final reading readings were approx. 680 u/S strength and 5.9 PH.

I don't know whether this makes much sense but your thoughts would be good.

Thanks

Gary
UK

 

[phraggy]

I, like most growers, find these posts very confusing and not easy to understand. I don't go in for' this and that' at certain levels and I certainly would not have the patience. For what it's worth I don't use any labeled orchid feeds.For the last twelve months I use only calcium nitrate, magnesium sulphate and liquid seaweed and it seems to be doing OK for my phrags and multis.
Just to add something. A very notable grower( and I haven't seen better ) uses only phostrogen on all his plants and you should see them!!!!

Ed

 

[Happypaphy7]

Well, Ed,

He's got four of the big elements needed by plants. N, Ca, Mg, S.
Then seaweed mix must have the rest in small amount.
I know that the seaweed bottle only lists K as active ingredient ( at least mine does), but since it came from organic material, I assume it has lots of other things in it.

 

[cnycharles]

If you don't have that much fertilizer to mix up, why not just use lemon juice to lower the ph? Can also use citric acid


Elmer Nj

 

[gonewild]

Hi All,


I don't know whether this makes much sense but your thoughts would be good.

Thanks

Gary
UK

Actually considering you have the K-lite on hand using it is a perfectly fine solution. Using it to lower the pH as you desire will also slightly raises the N ratio
which in effect lowers the P ratio. It is a logical step inline with you nutrient adjustment test.

Using citric acid to lower the pH would also be a good opportunity to see if the citric acid improved growth.... But since you are making a dosage increase of the entire nutrients you would not know if the nutrient increase or citric acid was the cause of improvement or degrade of growth.

Best to make changes in isolated steps if you want to learn what caused a change in growth.