helenae x fairrieanum

[Ross]

#1. Every seedling cross is an experiment. Though as I said, there has to be some clear thinking & research done before the cross is made. ie what influences each parent ( particularly with species ) has had in other crosses. If NEW species are being used then its an unknown factor, these 2 aren't.
#2. I don't believe anyone raised the Award potential issue though some experimental crosses have worked by accident but usually by good thinking.
Yes learning from the process is the key but we are offered these plants more and more but the buyer isn't learning and saying, hang-on, these colors or these parents have extreme dominance (eg henryanum ) what have they done in previous crossings, are these 2 parents going to enhance one or the other or both. The hybridist can do what they like but in the long run its the buyer who must educate themselves as to the potentialof the cross in influences of the parents and there is plenty of information available.

Where is such information available? Most literature I've seen may discuss what has worked, complete with beautiful pictures, but never have I seen "A Compendium of Dogs in Slipper Orchid Breeding" complete with pictures.oke:

 

[Kevin]

but never have I seen "A Compendium of Dogs in Slipper Orchid Breeding" complete with pictures.oke:

:rollhappy::rollhappy: That would be a good book! Seriously.

 

[Ross]

More on the serious side, Roy, I greatly value your keen, critical observations. Your comment on the color mix being wrong on this hybrid is an excellent point to consider when considering a cross.

 

[Roy]

Where is such information available? Most literature I've seen may discuss what has worked, complete with beautiful pictures, but never have I seen "A Compendium of Dogs in Slipper Orchid Breeding" complete with pictures.oke:

Ross, I think your book idea has merit It would be a very thick book.
To be serious, Kevin is correct when he said 'beauty is in the eye of the beholder'. Everyone has those. When I make or look to buy an orchid cross I look back at the parentage, if there is any unique feature in the plants to be used can offer the pod or pollen parent. Although most likely different clones, has either potential parent been used before in similar crosses and what were the results. Is the likely outcome, What I want ??
In a species x hybrid, the above applies even more. As an example from In-Charm Orchids website, P.In-Charm Gold = Emerald Magic x helenae. Green x yellow/orange. Instantly you can see the helenae influence in color & shape with the Emerald Magic in one but thats only 3 plants. The indications are there of what helenae can do with a compatible color. P. henryanum has the same type of influence.
One cross posted elsewhere highlights the best of both parents (IMO) and that is P.Gratrixianum x henryanum. The flowers are Gratrixianum with the coloring, from heavy to light influence of henryanum. This cross for its beauty is one of, if not the best cross of its type I've seen.
Species x species, again the rules of usage apply and the results. Antec Labs website has a good collection of pics as does slipperorchids.info or just Google the name of one parent and up thet come. Again, IMO, the more dis-similar the flowers in shape and/or color ( excluding white ) are, the greater the chance of flowering a "Dog".

 

[Ross]

This is what I generally do, also, using OrchidWiz, AQPlus, books like Koopowitz's, lectures, and Google when necessary. I would add corresponding with other individuals on Slippertalk and in person can add to one's knowledge base. This still leaves a lot of gaps.

Paph fowliei is a good example. Kopowitz in his recent book pronounces fowliei useless for hybridizing because of its poor shape. However, if few crosses have been made, how can it be inferred that fowliei's shape will dominate? Two hybrids have been registered, including this one with parishii. http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1638&highlight=Walter+Stewart .

Wanting to take advantage of fowliei's small size and vigorous growth habit, I decided to make several experimental crosses using fowliei. I chose fairrieanum and henryanum as the other parents because of their tendency to dominate a cross.I also did a third cross using godefroyae var leucochilum because of the sucess of some Maudiae x leucochilum crosses I've seen. Given that, all three crosses are highly speculative. So far all three crosses are growing vigorously, which is a plus. Time will tell if any will be successful or whether I have made my first successful attempt at breeding the World's Ugliest Paph. :evil: Another species a little closer to fowliei, sukhakulii, can be dominate a cross, also, but I'm waiting the results from these crosses before trying any more.

 

[Roy]

Ross, I would think the fowliei x fairrieanum would be ok. If I were looking for that type of Paph I would be happy buying that cross, shape and color similar in a broad sense, no major features to cause a problem. With henryanum, small plants and flowers, henryanum domination, small plants with potentially lots of flowers in small pots but I think the fowliei will be lost in the majority of the seedlings. They should be easier to grow than the parents though.
The godefroyae v leuco' x fowliei could be interesting and as mentioned in a posting, experimental to see what happens. I say this as many Brachy x Maud' type crosses flower with deformities. It will be interesting to see if these do the same. I won't say its a bad cross because fowliei might (might) be the maudiae style flower that works with a brachy and have fewer problems.
The Koopowitz comment about P.fowliei could be used for many species that are used. If you use fowliei looking to produce flowers like callosum or similar, it will never happen. There are much better plants to cross with fowliei to retain a callosum style flower ( eg, fairrieanum ), superbiens, urbanianum, hennisianum IMO would be suitable parents. Sure they may not have great shape but mini maudiae types would occur.