Candace
Well-Known Member
Guilty as charged. :<
HINI Swine Flu
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Guilty as charged. :<
K
Kavanaru
Guest
I know in this area (utica rome, ny) there are lots of kids that have the flu. Not so many older people as they were probably exposed to it in the '60's as I've heard, and several co-workers that have kids say that their kids have had the flu. I've heard that down in nyc area there aren't as many. Being healthy doesn't always do it, though it helps; during ww1, thousands who died were young and relatively healthy but didn't have any antibodies, and they were exposed to the flu which had had two types join together, because troops were near where they were storing pigs and poultry, which allowed both types to merge together and go crazy. Maybe I'm lucky that I'm not at work for a little while as there often are people who don't use healthy practices, and are around lots of kids that probably aren't healthy. Not sure if the h1n1 shot is available in this area yet, and not sure about getting it.
One winter I spent months cleaning a hedgerow at my uncle's farm outside in the blustery bitter cold, and never got sick. I was also not around people to get bugs, which helps a lot. I think sometimes people go too far with the whole antibiotic soaps and hand washes, but maybe for kids it might not be a bad idea though they would probably be having to wash every ten seconds!
One winter I spent months cleaning a hedgerow at my uncle's farm outside in the blustery bitter cold, and never got sick. I was also not around people to get bugs, which helps a lot. I think sometimes people go too far with the whole antibiotic soaps and hand washes, but maybe for kids it might not be a bad idea though they would probably be having to wash every ten seconds!
G
goldenrose
Guest
This is a website that I use to frequent, they now have my new email address! Anyway this sheds more light on the subject. I'm wondering how many Drs that are recommending flu shots are also telling people that due to the continued use of mercury &/ aluminum in the vaccinates can open the door for a host of neurological problems, such as MS, Alziehmers & encyphalitis? There is a long audio interview with a top neurologist, as well as others links you could access if you sign up. It's touted as being safe & being tested - guess how long the testing period is ? Read & listen to find out!
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...arned-About-the-Great-Swine-Flu-Pandemic.aspx
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/a...arned-About-the-Great-Swine-Flu-Pandemic.aspx
There seem to be a lot of faithful followers of Dr. Russell Blaylock, the person who is featured in the link given above. Some of his biggest fans are Sarah Palin. Glenn Beck and Rush Limbaugh. It also appears there is widespread controversy and a lot of accusations of fraud, quackery and charlatry surrounding this man. Dr. Blaylock may be a retired neurosurgeon, but a large percentage of what he preaches today goes directly against established medical knowledge and practice. There are truths laced in and throughout everything he teaches and preaches, but it's wise to take note he is also in the business of selling tickets to his touring lectures, books, audio and video products, nutritional supplements and so forth. The more scare and hype he can generate, the more money he makes.
I simply don't believe he speaks the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. I guess it's up to each of us to decide who and what to believe.
smartie2000
Well-Known Member
I am sick with H1N1 right now. I can barely think straight so I'm just going to mention that I have never gotten so sick so fast. I felt like nightmare or death, but not because I am so scared to die. I'm on Tamiflu right now and I think I am having some progesses. My symtoms started sun and got really bad on monday, so it has been four days of sickness. Unfortunately I reacted poorly compared to some other individuals
I missed two university exams and there is still an assignment for friday. I don't think one prof realizes how tough it is to write emails in this state,
If I could have prevented this I would have...Halloween got me. I will have to read the rest of the thread later
I missed two university exams and there is still an assignment for friday. I don't think one prof realizes how tough it is to write emails in this state,
If I could have prevented this I would have...Halloween got me. I will have to read the rest of the thread later
SlipperFan
Addicted
Get well, Fren! Take care of yourself -- we need you here.
Yoyo_Jo
Catt's Meow
Aww, poor Fren. Wishing your a speedy recovery buddy.
Hello Fren,
I also had the flu before my finals when first in school, some teachers don't pay any attention to anything but their schedules and have little sympathy. I hope you recover well and things work out for you
I also had the flu before my finals when first in school, some teachers don't pay any attention to anything but their schedules and have little sympathy. I hope you recover well and things work out for you
E
Ernie
Guest
Got my immunization today. No line at all. At 3:27, found out U Illinois Med Center (it's next door to the College of Pharmacy where I work) had them on my way to a seminar. Hopped over to the hospital, got the shot, and was back in the College and in the lecture hall at 3:31. No line. BUT, it's for UI employees only, so you other Chicago folks might not get satisfaction if you storm the UI hospital tomorrow.
Seemed like a good idea for me since I ride a train with 1400 other people (no joke) twice a day.
-Ernie
Seemed like a good idea for me since I ride a train with 1400 other people (no joke) twice a day.
-Ernie
OMG and you didn't DIE from it?
I wonder how long until your toes fall off.
The government can hear your thoughts now, though, and that is truly scary!
I bet Obama will steal your personal information right out of your mind to make a birth certificate for himself...right after he shuts down the internet and kills a few grandmothers. :arrr:
oke::rollhappy:
:evil:
PaphMadMan
phytomanic
OMG and you didn't DIE from it?
I wonder how long until your toes fall off.
The government can hear your thoughts now, though, and that is truly scary!
I bet Obama will steal your personal information right out of your mind to make a birth certificate for himself...right after he shuts down the internet and kills a few grandmothers. :arrr:
:rollhappy:
:evil:
Lanmark, you are my hero. Unfortunately, some in this forum will miss your sarcasm and take your statements as fact. They saw it on the internet, it must be true...
G
goldenrose
Guest
I'm sorry to hear that frem has a bad case of the flu. Yes I said the flu, were you tested specifically for H1N1? Seems that the majority of cases of flu are not being tested but are automatically being labeled as H1N1. A big part of why I'm not choosing to be vaccinated for either is -what are the other ingredients in the vaccines & I can't remember the last time I've had the flu. I do recall a 24 hour bug & even that was a long time ago, was it even the flu? Doesn't seasonal flu come on fast? The symptoms frem describes sounds like seasonal flu to me. I'm in an easy situation compared to others, I don't have children but I do work at Jewel, exposed to fellow workers & all the general public that walks thru the door.
I think most of us are aware that there are studies that will support which ever side of the fence that you are on, which doesn't make it easy for us trying to make a decision.
Lanmark states his opinion of Dr. Blaylock, what's your opinion of Dr. Mercola?
In the newsletter today there is a link that goes over the ingredients of the 4 approved H1N1 vaccines in the U.S., the length of any studies done on these vaccines, who should or shouldn't get it, it's efficacy and by the way the info is taken off the inserts included with vaccine.
These are Mercola's final thoughts-
"How Effective is the H1N1 Vaccine, Really?
"Specific levels of HI antibody titers post-vaccination with inactivated influenza virus vaccine have not been correlated with protection from influenza virus. In some human studies, antibody titers of 1:40 or greater have been associated with protection from influenza illness in up to 50% of subjects."
You will find that paragraph in all the vaccine inserts.
What that paragraph says, is that the vaccine only works in half, or less, of those individuals who attain the specified level of seroconversion after vaccination. The FDA defines seroconversion as achieving an antibody titer of 1:40.
This means that if a vaccine was 100 percent effective at achieving this level of seroconversion, it would protect up to 50 percent of the recipients of the vaccine.
But none of the vaccines are 100 percent effective at achieving seroconversion.
CSL's vaccine insert, for example, (see pages 11-12), states that their H1N1 vaccine provides seroconversion for:
•48.7 percent of people aged 18-65
•34 percent for seniors, 65 and older
That means that, at best, their vaccine works in one out of every four people! (49 percent of 50 percent).
Which, of course, means that the vaccine does NOT work in three out of every four people…
Is it REALLY worth it?
Final Thoughts
Hopefully, this compilation of data will help you weigh the risks and benefits, to make a more educated decision for yourself and your family."
I think most of us are aware that there are studies that will support which ever side of the fence that you are on, which doesn't make it easy for us trying to make a decision.
Lanmark states his opinion of Dr. Blaylock, what's your opinion of Dr. Mercola?
In the newsletter today there is a link that goes over the ingredients of the 4 approved H1N1 vaccines in the U.S., the length of any studies done on these vaccines, who should or shouldn't get it, it's efficacy and by the way the info is taken off the inserts included with vaccine.
These are Mercola's final thoughts-
"How Effective is the H1N1 Vaccine, Really?
"Specific levels of HI antibody titers post-vaccination with inactivated influenza virus vaccine have not been correlated with protection from influenza virus. In some human studies, antibody titers of 1:40 or greater have been associated with protection from influenza illness in up to 50% of subjects."
You will find that paragraph in all the vaccine inserts.
What that paragraph says, is that the vaccine only works in half, or less, of those individuals who attain the specified level of seroconversion after vaccination. The FDA defines seroconversion as achieving an antibody titer of 1:40.
This means that if a vaccine was 100 percent effective at achieving this level of seroconversion, it would protect up to 50 percent of the recipients of the vaccine.
But none of the vaccines are 100 percent effective at achieving seroconversion.
CSL's vaccine insert, for example, (see pages 11-12), states that their H1N1 vaccine provides seroconversion for:
•48.7 percent of people aged 18-65
•34 percent for seniors, 65 and older
That means that, at best, their vaccine works in one out of every four people! (49 percent of 50 percent).
Which, of course, means that the vaccine does NOT work in three out of every four people…
Is it REALLY worth it?
Final Thoughts
Hopefully, this compilation of data will help you weigh the risks and benefits, to make a more educated decision for yourself and your family."
E
Ernie
Guest
This is like a taxonomy discussion.
If you think it'll hurt you, don't take it. If you want it, get it. No matter what there will be people that got it that'll say it made them sick or dead. And there'll be just as many peole that say it saved them from swine flu. Whatever.
It cost me nothing but 4 minutes of my life. Plus I got to see some cute nurses.
-Ernie
If you think it'll hurt you, don't take it. If you want it, get it. No matter what there will be people that got it that'll say it made them sick or dead. And there'll be just as many peole that say it saved them from swine flu. Whatever.
It cost me nothing but 4 minutes of my life. Plus I got to see some cute nurses.
-Ernie
C
Clark
Guest
A cute nurse can cure alot of ailments.
Of my peer group, it is 50/50, for and against.
One family, the husbands sleeping on the couch over the debate.
Another family wasn't getting it until tradegy struck one of the childs schoolmates.
Toxic subject.
And yes, the possiblity does exist of getting sick from the shot, as my wife does attendence at her job. Coworker had to leave work less than 24hrs. after receiving dose.
I am not pushing views to one side or another, but at this moment both of us will continue to decline.
Of my peer group, it is 50/50, for and against.
One family, the husbands sleeping on the couch over the debate.
Another family wasn't getting it until tradegy struck one of the childs schoolmates.
Toxic subject.
And yes, the possiblity does exist of getting sick from the shot, as my wife does attendence at her job. Coworker had to leave work less than 24hrs. after receiving dose.
I am not pushing views to one side or another, but at this moment both of us will continue to decline.
Dr. Mercola is also a controversial figure whose credibility has come into question time and time again. He has been cited with warnings at least twice by the FDA for making false claims about products he has offered for sale. He has a large newsletter and internet operation and he is out to make money in much the same way as Dr. Blaylock does. Birds of a feather flock together. Is Dr. Mercola sincere? Is he deceptive? I think it is a matter of personal opinon. His advice is often contrary to widely held scientific beliefs, something which makes him attractive to certain segments of the population. My own opinion is that I do not wish to live as humanity lived in the Middle Ages. Modern science, while far from perfect, has certainly made my quality of life much better than that of most people who lived during the dark ages.
I do not agree with Dr. Mercola's scaremongering about the H1N1 vaccination. He refutes for the most part an H1N1 pandemic. An immediate local test for H1N1 isn't available, and the CDC has decided not to test every single person exhibiting a fever and other flu symptoms. Dr. Mercola has used these facts to support his statements implying some sort of conspiracy. I think there is no conspiracy. I think the medical community is responding in an educated and responsible manner to a virus which demands our attention.
_________________________
Regarding the information taken from the medical inserts which come with each vial of vaccine, I think Rose and Dr. Mercola are reading far more into it than what it is intended to say.
Let's take a look at this statement: "Specific levels of HI antibody titers post-vaccination with inactivated influenza virus vaccine have not been correlated with protection from influenza virus. In some human studies, antibody titers of 1:40 or greater have been associated with protection from influenza illness in up to 50% of subjects."
This statement explains that it hasn't yet been determined beyond a shadow of a doubt the exact mechanism of action by which the vaccine works. The researchers can't say for certain that the protection from influenza which people gain after being vaccinated is a result of specific levels of HI antibodies which have been measured in test groups of post-vaccinated individuals. Some studies, however, have already shown an association between elevated antibody titers and a quantifiable exhibited level of protection from influenza illness. The numbers given are not absolutes. They only show the levels of protection which scientists have so far been able to associate with the vaccination using very rigorous standards and controls. The actual levels of protection provided by this vaccine are most likely higher than the numbers given here.
In other words, they know the vaccination works. Already they have seen evidence of this in vaccinated individuals. They're pretty sure they know why the vaccination works, too, but they don't yet want to state it as an absolute fact until more research has been completed and proof obtained. The evidence they have gathered so far points in the direction of elevated antibody titers.
I'm really glad our scientific medical community is this meticulous and cautious. They don't want to throw around numbers and statements willy nilly and call them facts until they have ample proof that what they are saying is true.
________________
Now let's take a look at some statements found on medical inserts placed in the packages of other medications which are being used with great success by millions of people today.
Lopressor is a well-known beta blocker drug commonly used by patients with heart failure. This drug is very effective at lowering blood pressure. It is used by vast numbers of people, often in combination with other medications to manage heart disease. It saves and prolongs lives. Here are two statements from this drug's insert:
"The mechanism of the antihypertensive effects of beta-blocking agents has not been elucidated. However, several possible mechanisms have been proposed:"
"The precise mechanism of action of Lopressor in patients with suspected or definite myocardial infarction is not known."
Elocon is a very widely used skin ointment. It is a topical corticosteroid which reduces itching and inflammation. It is prescribed for itchy rash type skin conditions such as psoriasis and atopic dermatitis. Doctors prescribe it and patients use it because it works. Here is a statement from the insert which comes with Elocon:
"The mechanism of the anti-inflammatory activity of the topical steroids, in general, is unclear. However, corticosteroids are thought to act by the induction of phospholipase A2 inhibitory proteins, collectively called lipocortins."
Acetaminophen/Paracetamol aka Tylenol is something almost everyone has used at one time or another. Let's see what the Tylenol company has to say on the inserts which it includes in hospital-bound packages of their product:
"Although the exact site and mechanism of analgesic action is not clearly defined, acetaminophen appears to produce analgesia by elevation of the pain threshold. The potential mechanism may involve inhibition of the nitric oxide pathway mediated by a variety of neurotransmitter receptors including N-methyl-D-aspartate and substance P."
________________
I can't imagine what life would be like if we only utilized things in this world which we understood and could explain completely.
________________
Flu vaccinations aren't for everyone. Most people aren't sensitive to the trace amounts of Thimerosol found in vaccines. The benefits of vaccination far outweigh the risks in my opinion and in the opinions of most people in the medical and scientific communities. Not everyone who gets vaccinated will avoid getting sick with the flu. Not everyone who refuses to get vaccinated will inevitably get sick with the flu either. Not everyone who gets sick with the flu will die from it. The way I see it, it's just a little prick and I'll take it any day if it will help me avoid coming down with a nasty little bug which will make me feel like crap for days on end. My choice is mine. Yours is yours. What's it gonna be?
I do not agree with Dr. Mercola's scaremongering about the H1N1 vaccination. He refutes for the most part an H1N1 pandemic. An immediate local test for H1N1 isn't available, and the CDC has decided not to test every single person exhibiting a fever and other flu symptoms. Dr. Mercola has used these facts to support his statements implying some sort of conspiracy. I think there is no conspiracy. I think the medical community is responding in an educated and responsible manner to a virus which demands our attention.
_________________________
Regarding the information taken from the medical inserts which come with each vial of vaccine, I think Rose and Dr. Mercola are reading far more into it than what it is intended to say.
Let's take a look at this statement: "Specific levels of HI antibody titers post-vaccination with inactivated influenza virus vaccine have not been correlated with protection from influenza virus. In some human studies, antibody titers of 1:40 or greater have been associated with protection from influenza illness in up to 50% of subjects."
This statement explains that it hasn't yet been determined beyond a shadow of a doubt the exact mechanism of action by which the vaccine works. The researchers can't say for certain that the protection from influenza which people gain after being vaccinated is a result of specific levels of HI antibodies which have been measured in test groups of post-vaccinated individuals. Some studies, however, have already shown an association between elevated antibody titers and a quantifiable exhibited level of protection from influenza illness. The numbers given are not absolutes. They only show the levels of protection which scientists have so far been able to associate with the vaccination using very rigorous standards and controls. The actual levels of protection provided by this vaccine are most likely higher than the numbers given here.
In other words, they know the vaccination works. Already they have seen evidence of this in vaccinated individuals. They're pretty sure they know why the vaccination works, too, but they don't yet want to state it as an absolute fact until more research has been completed and proof obtained. The evidence they have gathered so far points in the direction of elevated antibody titers.
I'm really glad our scientific medical community is this meticulous and cautious. They don't want to throw around numbers and statements willy nilly and call them facts until they have ample proof that what they are saying is true.
________________
Now let's take a look at some statements found on medical inserts placed in the packages of other medications which are being used with great success by millions of people today.
Lopressor is a well-known beta blocker drug commonly used by patients with heart failure. This drug is very effective at lowering blood pressure. It is used by vast numbers of people, often in combination with other medications to manage heart disease. It saves and prolongs lives. Here are two statements from this drug's insert:
"The mechanism of the antihypertensive effects of beta-blocking agents has not been elucidated. However, several possible mechanisms have been proposed:"
"The precise mechanism of action of Lopressor in patients with suspected or definite myocardial infarction is not known."
Elocon is a very widely used skin ointment. It is a topical corticosteroid which reduces itching and inflammation. It is prescribed for itchy rash type skin conditions such as psoriasis and atopic dermatitis. Doctors prescribe it and patients use it because it works. Here is a statement from the insert which comes with Elocon:
"The mechanism of the anti-inflammatory activity of the topical steroids, in general, is unclear. However, corticosteroids are thought to act by the induction of phospholipase A2 inhibitory proteins, collectively called lipocortins."
Acetaminophen/Paracetamol aka Tylenol is something almost everyone has used at one time or another. Let's see what the Tylenol company has to say on the inserts which it includes in hospital-bound packages of their product:
"Although the exact site and mechanism of analgesic action is not clearly defined, acetaminophen appears to produce analgesia by elevation of the pain threshold. The potential mechanism may involve inhibition of the nitric oxide pathway mediated by a variety of neurotransmitter receptors including N-methyl-D-aspartate and substance P."
________________
I can't imagine what life would be like if we only utilized things in this world which we understood and could explain completely.
________________
Flu vaccinations aren't for everyone. Most people aren't sensitive to the trace amounts of Thimerosol found in vaccines. The benefits of vaccination far outweigh the risks in my opinion and in the opinions of most people in the medical and scientific communities. Not everyone who gets vaccinated will avoid getting sick with the flu. Not everyone who refuses to get vaccinated will inevitably get sick with the flu either. Not everyone who gets sick with the flu will die from it. The way I see it, it's just a little prick and I'll take it any day if it will help me avoid coming down with a nasty little bug which will make me feel like crap for days on end. My choice is mine. Yours is yours. What's it gonna be?
smartie2000
Well-Known Member
nope I was not tested. He just said that he would swab me but they were getting too many positive swabs and we are not giving them out anymore. So my diagonsis was based on the symptoms and assumptions. I've never had a flu quite like this and one that progressed to quickly though. But I think I might have to get the shot anyway since I don't know whether I have H1N1 or just a really bad normal flu.
I'm better today...Hurray for Tamiflu
ohio-guy
Well-Known Member
My understanding is that the test for the h1n1 flu is rather expensive at about 200$, and takes about 2 days to get back in the best cases. As it is there is often a backlog and it can take more than a week to get results.
Often, those that are testing positive for flu A by the rapid test (performed right in the care givers office oftentimes) in fact are showing a cross reaction to h1n1, and the assumption is made that these positive flu tests actually represent h1n1. Tamiflu is an antiviral drug to reduce the viral load and thus lessen the severity of symptoms, but works best if started in the first 48 hrs of symptoms.
Most people don't get to their doctor in the first day or so, and would complain to have to wait 2 or more days, or maybe a week, to get back a test that will cost 200$, and then be too late to start the treatment....
People should hopefully have some kind of relationship of trust with their doctor, and if he feels you have the flu, and tamiflu is prescribed, accept that they know what they are talking about. But a lot of people find it easier to trust some remote talking head who feeds on their doubts.
edited to reflect the correction noted below by Ramon
Often, those that are testing positive for flu A by the rapid test (performed right in the care givers office oftentimes) in fact are showing a cross reaction to h1n1, and the assumption is made that these positive flu tests actually represent h1n1. Tamiflu is an antiviral drug to reduce the viral load and thus lessen the severity of symptoms, but works best if started in the first 48 hrs of symptoms.
Most people don't get to their doctor in the first day or so, and would complain to have to wait 2 or more days, or maybe a week, to get back a test that will cost 200$, and then be too late to start the treatment....
People should hopefully have some kind of relationship of trust with their doctor, and if he feels you have the flu, and tamiflu is prescribed, accept that they know what they are talking about. But a lot of people find it easier to trust some remote talking head who feeds on their doubts.
edited to reflect the correction noted below by Ramon
K
Kavanaru
Guest
I need to disagree here... completely!! Tamiflu is NOT a treatment to lessen the severity of the symptoms (you have Aspirin and Acetaminophen for that if you want!)
Tamiflu is an antiviral drug which prevents the virus to attack new cells, and therefore reducing its reproduction in the body. The FLU virus can reproduce extremely quick. Thumb-rule: the most virus you have in your body the stronger the Flu Symptoms and and the weaker your health. For this reason, it is recommended to start Tamiflu treatment within 48h after the first symptoms start! One ofthe recommendations given is "Start Tamiflu as soon as you have flu symptoms, independently whether you will have a swine flu test done or not!" (which by the way, is not as expensive as people say! 200$ per test is quite high! Ifthat's the price in the USA.. WOW!)
Of course, as mentionned above, if you start Tamiflu treatment at an early stage, you will have less virus in your body, and also milder symptoms.
