K-lite fertilizer

[gonewild]

How about..........
http://www.baicor.com/products/view/23

 

[Rick]

OK how do we make a 448 gram (1 pound) bag of fertilizer that we can mix to different strengths.... like 1 tsp per gallon of water?

If we want to have the ratio you suggest but not using MSU as a part because we don't want the potassium.

10-1-1 NPK
6 Ca
2 mg
Trace elements (how much does MSU contain?)

Possible contents are?
Calcium Nitrate
Potassium Nitrate
?

Since Calcium Nitrate is difficult to handle what else can we use to source calcium to make a stable dry mix? There must be some form of stable water soluble calcium.

I think the bulk of nitrate in MSU is from potassium nitrate. Roth say's there is a parafin coated calcium nitrate that avoids the hygroscopic issue. So I guess a bulk replacement of the KNO3 with CaNO3 would be pretty simple. Then just add a bit extra MgSO4.

I can't give exact numbers right now (at work). But I guess the first thing to check on is the available of "peletized" calcium nitrate.


"To include calcium nitrate in many fertilizers, they use thin paraffin coated pellets usually. Then it can be mixed, and will not react too quickly. But if you mix dry powders of any phosphate salts with calcium nitrate, and try to dissolve the result, you will see that a fair part became insoluble already in the dry state (especially as calcium nitrate is so hygroscopic)..."

 

[gonewild]

I think the bulk of nitrate in MSU is from potassium nitrate. Roth say's there is a parafin coated calcium nitrate that avoids the hygroscopic issue. So I guess a bulk replacement of the KNO3 with CaNO3 would be pretty simple. I can't give exact numbers right now (at work). But I guess the first thing to check on is the available of "peletized" calcium nitrate.

No, not the best direction. The parafin coating separates when the pellets are dissolved in water and floats to the surface as wax. This makes a mess and creates a problem if used with an injector or even with fine nozzles. To over come this you would have to filter the liquid solution before use.

 

[Rick]

No, not the best direction. The parafin coating separates when the pellets are dissolved in water and floats to the surface as wax. This makes a mess and creates a problem if used with an injector or even with fine nozzles. To over come this you would have to filter the liquid solution before use.

Then probably stuck with a solution rather than dry powder, and still maybe with a part A and part B solution.

 

[SlipperFan]

No, not the best direction. The parafin coating separates when the pellets are dissolved in water and floats to the surface as wax. This makes a mess and creates a problem if used with an injector or even with fine nozzles. To over come this you would have to filter the liquid solution before use.

Interesting. Is that why my siphon that I use for fertilizing is getting less and less efficient each time I use it?

If so, how do I get rid of the wax if it's inside the siphon?

 

[gonewild]

Interesting. Is that why my siphon that I use for fertilizing is getting less and less efficient each time I use it?

If so, how do I get rid of the wax if it's inside the siphon?

If there is wax, when you dissolve the Calcium Nitrate you will see the white wax floating like a cream or foam on the water surface.

Is the siphon brass?
If you boil it in water the wax will melt off and float to the surface of the water.

Need to find 100% soluble Calcium Nitrate and not the prilled form. You can use the prilled form by straining it through a filter after it is dissolved...like a coffee filter. But that is not very convenient if you have much liquid.

 

[SlipperFan]

Thanks, Lance. Yes, the siphon is brass. I'll try boiling it.

I've been using the MSU formula and lately adding some Calcium Nitrate. I don't know if it's the prilled form or not, but I certainly can filter it.

Thanks again!

 

[gonewild]

Thanks, Lance. Yes, the siphon is brass. I'll try boiling it.

I've been using the MSU formula and lately adding some Calcium Nitrate. I don't know if it's the prilled form or not, but I certainly can filter it.

Thanks again!

You're welcome!
If the Calcium Nitrate looks like little balls it is the wax coated. If it looks like coarse sugar it is the soluble form. One of the reasons they coat it is so that it will flow, dry, through agri fertilizer applicators. Little balls roll along.

 

[Stone]

The cal.nitrate I use is in the form of little round balls. It disolves in about 1 min. in warm water. I've never noticed any wax residue?

 

[Rick]

my stuff is straight cal nitrate with waters of hydration.

It's like wet granular sugar and dissolves almost instantly.

If you leave it open on the kitchen table it sucks water out of the air and turns into a gloppy mess.

 

[Ray]

The calcium nitrate I buy is granular, and it is not particularly bad about becoming "glopped up" with moisture.

When I repackage the MSU stuff, it is far more sensitive.

 

[Justin]

i have been pre-mixing the dry ingredients (MSU, wax-coated Calcium Nitrate, and epsom salts) in very small batches and sealing in a tupperware container.

The Calcium Nitrate picks up some moisture from the other ingredients or directly from the air but it is not too bad. There is definitely some precipitate when mixed into water (maybe it is the wax?). Still, it is manageable for my small-scale application and even if some of the Calcium Nitrate is rendered insoluble my plants are definitely showing undeniable evidence of improvement.

 

[keithrs]

What do you guy think of this program? Maybe add a micro program in there?

Advanced Nutrients

 

[Stone]

What do you guy think of this program? Maybe add a micro program in there?

Advanced Nutrients

SG_A looks like a good start, just add some potassium sulphate if you feel the need. Buying liquid fertilizers in bulk is an expesive way to get your nurients compared to dry types. You are mainly paying for water

 

[Rick]

What do you guy think of this program? Maybe add a micro program in there?

Advanced Nutrients

I remember looking at this company for their hydroponic stuff (which is loppsided for K).

Some of their products list magnesium salts in them, but don't list a final concentration.

To me it was too complex to bother.

 

[keithrs]

I remember looking at this company for their hydroponic stuff (which is loppsided for K).

Some of their products list magnesium salts in them, but don't list a final concentration.

To me it was too complex to bother.

Every fertilizer I look at these days is lopsided toward K.... Or it's a "blooming" formula with little N and tons of P.

So where stuck with MSU, CaNo3, MgSO4 for now?

As Stone pointed out.... it would be too expensive to buy what is out there already on the shelf as most of it is liquid. If you could even find a low K formula....

 

[Rick]

Every fertilizer I look at these days is lopsided toward K.... Or it's a "blooming" formula with little N and tons of P.

Unless we can get hold of the Nutri-tech Solutions stuff from Australia.

There was a grass turf specialty company I found on the web that also looked like it had a cal/mag system that was intriguing, but I didn't follow up on it. The Ca/Mg was chelated in some type of organosulfonates much like it came out of wood products.

In general the grass folks also seem to be pushing the cal/mag thing.

 

[Stone]

Or it's a "blooming" formula with little N and tons of P

.

We've got tons of so called flower boost ferts. ( very high P)
It has been well proved now that they are absolute ********!
Flowers typically have lower levels of P than leaves. In some cases xtra P actually reduces flower numbers!

 

[keithrs]

Unless we can get hold of the Nutri-tech Solutions stuff from Australia.

There was a grass turf specialty company I found on the web that also looked like it had a cal/mag system that was intriguing, but I didn't follow up on it. The Ca/Mg was chelated in some type of organosulfonates much like it came out of wood products.

In general the grass folks also seem to be pushing the cal/mag thing.

There seems to be quite a difference in turf fertilizers..... But the they have quite bit of sulfur and iron. I have not seen much Ca/Mg. In the short search I did, the highest I saw was 4% Ca and .5% Mg. The synthetic fertilizer seem to use Urea quite a bit.

 

[cnycharles]

phosphorus is basically needed for specialty things that grow and flower very quickly, with lots of branching and flower buds, like hothouse and fall chrysanthemums. it has been proven at least in trials that may or may not have been published publically. but, if you have a mum that is growing quickly and it's about to get to the stage where it is going to be putting out lots of those branches (and the flower buds are on the ends of those little branches), and you don't have enough basic nitrogen and phosphorus, you will retard branching and subsequently the number of flowers. branches will also be brittle that do form if you don't have enough of phosphorus. so, the recommendation about 'high phosphorus for flowering' for orchids, probably came from the pot plant (flowers etc) market which is where a lot of other recommendations come from. I do have a feeling that for phals and other orchids that do have floral structures like stems and flowers that do grow very quickly, that if phosphorus and basic nitrogen is limiting (not really enough or it's blocked by other elements), then you can have aborting or poor structures or less flowers. Dr. Yin Tung Wang formerly of Texas did show that hybrid phals that didn't have enough general nitrogen did have less flowers. I don't remember if there was a correlation beyond that for phosphorus. I do believe that studies had shown that adding 'extra' phosphorus didn't make more flowers, but having enough of nitrogen and phosphorus was important to support a normal amount. adding more beyond a basic point didn't 'make' more and more flowers; general nutrition was necessary to make a 'normal' amount, and below the basic levels flowering dropped off. I do feel that making sure there is enough phosphorus around before flowering to make sure there is a basic amount is a good idea for very fast forming orchid flower structures, but that's more of an inference from watching things, and the fact that I often don't fertilize alot in the first place. someone that fertilizes a lot (that doesn't have a phosphorus problem because other elements are blocking it's uptake) probably won't have to worry as much about adding 'extra' phosphorus, and adding more and more I don't think will create more flowers