malipoensis x jackii ?? Pic anyone?

[MorandiWine]

Does anyone have a picture of this "hybrid?" I cant seem to find anything.

Thanks
Tyler


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[tomkalina]

The question is: why would anyone make this hybrid?

 

[Ozpaph]

To confuse us!

 

[Erythrone]

Here is one picture here:

http://www.paramountorchids.com/jpg/Paph (malipoense x jackii)1.jpg

 

[Erythrone]

The question is: why would anyone make this hybrid?

Good question...

 

[MorandiWine]

I heard of some being intentionally created and sold as jackii. I agree that this hybrid seems silly, the flowers are so similar.

Tyler


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[eggshells]

The question is: why would anyone make this hybrid?

To make a vigorous hybrid and passed it on as a vigorous malipoense.

Seriously, these actions just muddies everything. Especially if it gets back crossed to one of its parents. If the hybridizer isn't diligent about the plants provenance. Then that's it.. It becomes a hybrid passed on as a species.

 

[Bjorn]

Its vigour that lies behing. The cross is much easier to grow. Difference is normally seen in the staminode not being uniformly colored. Else, the outcome perfectly looks as a micranthum.

 

[troy]

Bjorn, looks like a micranthum?

 

[NYEric]

I hope it doesn't pass on that floppy jackii dorsal!

 

[Bjorn]

Bjorn, looks like a micranthum?

Ooch! Malipoense of course:wink:

 

[Drorchid]

The question is: why would anyone make this hybrid?

I agree with Bjorn. The simple answer is "Hybrid vigor"...Both malipoense and jackii are very closely related, and probably had common ancestors. As they were separated for many generations, by crossing the two you get "Hybrid Vigor" or "Heterosis".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heterosis

You will get plants that will be much stronger, grow faster, and sometimes have larger flowers. We have some Phrag. Jersey (=besseae x dalesandroi) in our collection. They are extremely good growers (better than besseae or dalesandroi). So by doing these kind of crosses, you are creating plants that will be a lot easer to grow for the "hobbyist". I think I rather have something like that that still resembles a wild species, but is a lot easier to grow, than having the "pure" species, but it will only live for one to two years..It is not like we are putting these plants back into the wild..

Remember my opinions come from being a "Plant Breeder" and "Geneticist". I know there will be purists out there, that will say it will confuse people...but hey even if you are doing "line breeding" within a species, the plants after a number of generations will look totally different compared to their wild ancestors. Look at Paph. bellatulum or Paph. leuchochilum or even Phrag. besseae as examples.

I do agree it is bad, that when people make these kind of crosses, say like Paph. (Bruno x spicerianum) x spicerianum and still label them as Paph. spicerianum...,and sell them to the public as such. It is always important to have the correct labels, and if in doubt what they are, not to use them for breeding purposes..

Just my opinion.

Robert

 

[tomkalina]

From a judging standpoint, it's a bad idea. One of the things I learned early in the judging program is hybrids at the judging table should represent some improvement in flower quality over the parents. IMHO, after seeing a good number of jackii's in bloom, it would be hard for me to envision an improvement in a good malipoense by breeding it to a jackii, regardless of the vigor.

 

[Drorchid]

From a judging standpoint, it's a bad idea. One of the things I learned early in the judging program is hybrids at the judging table should represent some improvement in flower quality over the parents. IMHO, after seeing a good number of jackii's in bloom, it would be hard for me to envision an improvement in a good malipoense by breeding it to a jackii, regardless of the vigor.

In the case of jackii x malipoense, I will probably have to agree with you. Paph. jackii has much smaller flowers compared to malipoense, and any hybrid (even if it has hybrid vigor) will probably still have smaller flowers compared to malipoense, and won't be much of an improvement in flower quality compared to it's parent malipoense, or visa versa. The plant on the other hand will probably be a lot more vigorous. But I don't think the sole purpose of the orchid breeder is to please "the judge", but rather come up with a plant that is easy to grow for the consumer. There will be other examples, of plants that are very closely related, where the hybrid of the two will get the best traits from both parents, and the flower quality may be even better than either parent. Think of the man made hybrid Paph. Conco-bellatulum.

Robert

 

[tomkalina]

While not the sole purpose, one of the main purposes of commercial orchid breeding is to improve flower quality while preserving or improving plant vigor. And flower quality is determined by comparing a plants floral characteristics to established judging criteria that are part of the AOS system or other established judging systems, world-wide. The problem with breeding these two similar varieties is that someone down the line is going to present one of the hybrids as an improved jackii i.e. your spicerianum example, and how are we going to tell the difference?

 

[Drorchid]

While not the sole purpose, one of the main purposes of commercial orchid breeding is to improve flower quality while preserving or improving plant vigor. And flower quality is determined by comparing a plants floral characteristics to established judging criteria that are part of the AOS system or other established judging systems, world-wide. The problem with breeding these two similar varieties is that someone down the line is going to present one of the hybrids as an improved jackii i.e. your spicerianum example, and how are we going to tell the difference?

True...or like putting a Paph. Shun-Fa Golden in an orchid show, and labeling it as a Paph. Memoria Larry Heuer oke:

Robert

 

[tomkalina]

:rollhappy:

 

[Ryan Young]

Found a pic on Cloud's orchids
http://www.cloudsorchids.com/images/7822_0.jpg

 

[PaphMadMan]

I've been trying to post a reply to this all day and it won't let me.

 

[eaborne]

To make a vigorous hybrid and passed it on as a vigorous malipoense.

I heard of some being intentionally created and sold as jackii.

I suspect ya'll hit the nail on the head!!