Orchids 2023

[Tom-DE]

Justin, what you said about blooming/maturity is true. I also have found (my own observation) that the plant is mature enough to bloom(for a first-time bloomer) when the second growth is about 6 months old or so.
I hope your OZ plant will turn out to be a good one...looking forward to more updates.
I've heard that sanderianum doesn't multiply fast...normally just one new growth. Currently, mine has two growths from the last bloomed growth, one is strong and one is weak but growing...before that, it tried to send up two growths also but only one grew to maturity, and the other one just died off... what is your observation on that?

 

[Justin]

Unfortunately I'm not the best sanderianum grower lol. I have only had a few. I killed a great one that was super dark with over 75cm petals.

 

[spujr]

Justin, what you said about blooming/maturity is true. I also have found (my own observation) that the plant is mature enough to bloom(for a first-time bloomer) when the second growth is about 6 months old or so.
I hope your OZ plant will turn out to be a good one...looking forward to more updates.
I've heard that sanderianum doesn't multiply fast...normally just one new growth. Currently, mine has two growths from the last bloomed growth, one is strong and one is weak but growing...before that, it tried to send up two growths also but only one grew to maturity, and the other one just died off... what is your observation on that?

Hi, I don't know the specifics of your growing conditions but I might guess that your lighting might be the problem. I try to grow mine under the strongest light as possible, short of full sun. The leaf color should be lime green, bordering yellow.

Again, you might have these conditions. It sounds like your plant is prioritizing one growth over the other due to some limiting resource, light, water, or nutrition. Light is usually the common issue.

 

[Tom-DE]

Hi, I don't know the specifics of your growing conditions but I might guess that your lighting might be the problem. I try to grow mine under the strongest light as possible, short of full sun. The leaf color should be lime green, bordering yellow.

Again, you might have these conditions. It sounds like your plant is prioritizing one growth over the other due to some limiting resource, light, water, or nutrition. Light is usually the common issue.

No, strong light is not for sanderianum. Matter of fact, stronger light actually slow down the growths. Yellowish leaves for sanderianum is not what you are looking for... I have no problem growing or blooming my sanderianum under bright shade/normal light for Paphs. It just doesn't seem to multiply fast enough like some of the Paph. sp. Someone on this forum mentioned the same thing last year also and that is why I wonder it is the norm for this species...
If you have a sanderianum with multigrowths, I would love to see a photo of the plant and the flowers also.

 

[Tony]

No, strong light is not for sanderianum. Matter of fact, stronger light actually slow down the growths. Yellowish leaves for sanderianum is not what you are looking for... I have no problem growing or blooming my sanderianum under bright shade/normal light for Paphs. It just doesn't seem to multiply fast enough like some of the Paph. sp. Someone on this forum mentioned the same thing last year also and that is why I wonder it is the norm for this species...
If you have a sanderianum with multigrowths, I would love to see a photo of the plant and the flowers also.

I'll cosign this, I set my blooming sandi way back with too much light, they're much happier under my benches.

 

[spujr]

Hi, interesting. Sept 1999 issue of AOS has an article on sand culture and in it is suggested to grow in bright light.

Of course this is an article 20+ years old but it was written by someone who bloomed many rewarded plants of this species.

Has there been newer literature that suggest lower lighted conditions?

I just have a couple multi growth plants but both only have the one old growth and one new growth. This is one of them that just finished.

 

[Tom-DE]

I just have a couple multi growth plants but both only have the one old growth and one new growth. This is one of them that just finished.

Here you go, you are having the same situation--one new growth only.
Not all the info/articles in AOS magazine are good or correct... pretty much like what people post on forums...take it with a grain of salt in all cases if I may say. If you totally believe what AOS magazine told you, good luck with it. I haven't read the article or know who wrote the article, so I can't comment on it. In its natural habitat, sanderianum grows in the dapple shade...
I have been growing my sanderianum under a bright shade condition(1000~1200fc?) for almost 20 years...I am quite happy with it and it is a fantastic clone as well...I just wish it would multiply faster. I posted mine a couple of times here(I think..), if you like to take a look, you may do a search here. I believe it is still here somewhere...

PS, if you grow under light(especiall under HID light), you should grow in less light(fc). unlike natural light in gh, artificial light is at a constant light level.

 

[eds]

I was lucky enough to see some in the wild in Borneo - they were on the side of a cliff in the rainforest, growing in cracks in the rock. The area was partially shaded for some of the day but they got full sun for a few hours.

Despite seeing them in the wild I have still killed the two seedlings I bought initially. But have a larger plant now that I hope will do better! Mine is on a south facing windowsill in winter and a shady conservatory in the summer so they get partial shade.

 

[Happypaphy7]

Maybe it's one of those that are not that forgiving of less-than-ideal conditions.
I'm not a sandy grower but aware of its growing conditions. What I would think that might be lacking in typical culture is that proper temperature range and that significant temperature drop at night, and this evenly throughout the year as well as tons of watering and high humidity at all times. This probably isn't possible for most of us and this species might just be very sensitive in its needs.
Also, I have not seen huge sanderianum, either.
I think Michael Koopowitz would make a great subsitute for me.

 

[Tom-DE]

I was lucky enough to see some in the wild in Borneo - they were on the side of a cliff in the rainforest, growing in cracks in the rock. The area was partially shaded for some of the day but they got full sun for a few hours.

Despite seeing them in the wild I have still killed the two seedlings I bought initially. But have a larger plant now that I hope will do better! Mine is on a south facing windowsill in winter and a shady conservatory in the summer so they get partial shade.

(on your location) Was it in the morning or afternoon when the plants got some full sun? What time of the year you were visiting there? Elevation? PS, all these questions are just for info-exchange...
Jerry Fischer from Orchids Limited, MN, USA once visited the natural habitat of this species in the late 90s?, he reported the plants were growing in the dapple shade, and the leaves are soft and shiny, plain green, 3 feet LS, big plants (if I remember all these right).

 

[Tom-DE]

I'm not a sandy grower but aware of its growing conditions. What I would think that might be lacking in typical culture is that proper temperature range and that significant temperature drop at night, and this evenly throughout the year as well as tons of watering and high humidity at all times.

That might be ideal but shouldn't be so restricted in reality...My current plant is from a tiny seedling that I bought in 2003 and I have been growing it the same way as all my other Paphs...slow growing at the beginning but not difficult. Not sure it will make a huge difference, but I do have good natural well water here(good ph level, no added chemicals).

...but growing it into a large multi-growths plant is a different story IMO.

 

[eds]

(on your location) Was it in the morning or afternoon when the plants got some full sun? What time of the year you were visiting there? Elevation? PS, all these questions are just for info-exchange...

It was 10 years ago but, if I remember correctly, it was early afternoon and they were just in sun so would have had a couple of hours. We were there in August.
No idea on the rest I'm afraid, we were busy trekking through to get to the caves and the rest of the party were not going to wait for me!

 

[Tom-DE]

It was 10 years ago but, if I remember correctly, it was early afternoon and they were just in sun so would have had a couple of hours. We were there in August.
No idea on the rest I'm afraid, we were busy trekking through to get to the caves and the rest of the party were not going to wait for me!

Thanks, Ed. Here is my thinking on why/how some of the plants in wild can handle some (not too strong) direct sun...besides rain and fog/cloud cover being the factors, the temperature is cooler in higher elevations also (*plants have been found in low to mid-elevation) ... August is still quite wet, with heavy rain for a time in Borneo. Matter of fact, it is constantly wet with monsoons almost year-round (slightly drier in March).
I am assuming you were on an expedition of visiting the habitat of sanderianum. It must have been a fantastic experience.

 

[spujr]

Not all the info/articles in AOS magazine are good or correct... pretty much like what people post on forums.

I do agree with you on this in general but John Doherty was (is) one of the top growers of this species and you can see from their photos plants with multi growths.

I think my plants are not multi growth due to age and less with culture.

Also, although it is a completely different species so dangerous to draw lines of comparison, roths have been know to produce multiple growths when exposed to bright light.

In any case, it sounds like you have good success with the culture and perhaps it's a genetics thing, loss of vigor in inbreeding from wild plants. I respectfully admit there are lots of factors to consider.

 

[spujr]

I was lucky enough to see some in the wild in Borneo

This would be a treat! I bet it was a very worthwhile trip and personally would love to see them in nature as well!

 

[Tom-DE]

I do agree with you on this in general but John Doherty was (is) one of the top growers of this species and you can see from their photos plants with multi growths.

I think my plants are not multi growth due to age and less with culture.

Also, although it is a completely different species so dangerous to draw lines of comparison, roths have been know to produce multiple growths when exposed to bright light.

In any case, it sounds like you have good success with the culture and perhaps it's a genetics thing, loss of vigor in inbreeding from wild plants. I respectfully admit there are lots of factors to consider.

Fair enough. but please don't use rothchildianum culture as an example when you're talking about sanderianum...They are quite different...
I don't know John Doherty(a Canadian grower?), he does have some nice flowering sanderianum on photos, but, those are not multi-growths big plants that I am talking about. What I would call multi-growth plants are those with two or three new growths besides the spent old growths
BTW, by any standard, I would not call it multi-growths either if a plant is just having two growths. Good luck with yours, hopefully, you will show us your sanderianum with multi growths someday and prove the value of your cultural practice.

 

[Justin]

In my experience roth and sand are definitely not similar.

roths can take Cattleya level light, but sanderianum cannot. It is a low light multifloral for sure. Not as low as adductum/anitum, which do much better in low-Phal light, but nothing like what you would grow a roth or philippinense in.

Overall, sanderianum is much more difficult to grow. They prefer warm temperatures, high humidity, and they are not as forgiving of less than perfect nutrition. In contrast, roths are much tougher, you can beat on them, blast them with high light, grow them in an alpine house, and they still grow fine.

Flower quality is still very dependent on environment, but in terms of growing roth is just a much easier species.

 

[annica.jarvela]

Hello Justin!

Sorry, it has taken several days to answer. So, it is Fanaticum. I don`t think I`ve had it.

Your sanderianum looks nice. I tried to see from the picture, but I couldn`t tell. Do you have two different plants or is the other flower and buds coming from another shoot? Or do I see something non-existing things?

 

[annica.jarvela]

When we talk about the dilemma of Phrag. bessaea var. dalessandroi or Phrag. dalessandroi. I don`t want to hurt anyone, but we have all learned about the difficulties of naming and placing any orchid sp. And here just as an example is the variation P. concolor. P. concolor var longipetalum was discovered in 1894, and then newly discovered in 2006. It was named in 2014 and got sp. rank and named P. josianae by Olaf Gruss.
(Let's see how many mistakes I have made.)

 

[Justin]

Here is the sanderianum. Not the best flower quality, and not the most impressive I have flowered, but it is the true species and still of interest.

Petals are only around 44cm or so, but I wasn't expecting much in our dry winter conditions.

Will attempt to self it and also use pollen from a fellow ST member's selected division.

We keep on rolling. Next up will be some lowii and haynaldianums, which are starting to open now. And I've counted 17 or 18 roth plants in bud, so they are about four weeks out!