Paph. concolor var. striatum.

[werner.freitag]

very nice flower , congratulation !

regarding the name : the subspecies and varieties make a lot of sense to us, because they are really different !

 

[gego]

So what is the real name for this plant?
Thanks

 

[GuRu]

So what is the real name for this plant? Thanks

In strictly botanical sense Paphiopedilum concolor . Otherwise like Jens (Guldal) explained in his post or if you like this better Paphiopedilum concolor (striatum type)

 

[GuRu]

.......regarding the name : the subspecies and varieties make a lot of sense to us, because they are really different !

Werner, I'm no nitpicker and I can understand your problem/request. On the one hand you can distinguish on the first sight a 'normal' Paph. concolor from a Paph. concolor (striatum type). But on the other hand, in strictly botanical sense, those difference(s) is/are within the variation of Paph. concolor. H.Koopowitz writes in his book 'TROPICAL SLIPPER ORCHIDS' on page 184 'Pfitzer (1903) recognized five varieties of this species.....Cribb(1998) suggests that the so-called varieties should treated more appropriately as forms' and G. Braem writes in his book 'PAPHIOPEDILUM' on page 51 'Paphiopedilum concolor is...very variable. A series of varieties has been described....With the exception of the pure white form....non of these 'varieties' differs such an extent from the nominal form as to warrant them varietal status.'
Who, if not we orchid enthusiasts in general and Paph enthusiasts in special, who are quite familiar with botanical names and rules, should try to use them in correct sense as good as possible.

 

[Tony]

But what is correct? What makes Braem's adherence to lumper philosophy more valid than past authors' preference as splitters? I tend toward the splitters myself, it never hurts to maintain more information on our plants. Look at the mess with the praestans/glanduliferum/wilhelminae complex or adductum/anitum, every time someone lumps or splits them we end up with mislabeled plants that can be difficult or impossible to straighten back out.

 

[GuRu]

But what is correct? What makes Braem's adherence to lumper philosophy more valid than past authors' preference as splitters? I tend toward the splitters myself, it never hurts to maintain more information on our plants. Look at the mess with the praestans/glanduliferum/wilhelminae complex or adductum/anitum, every time someone lumps or splits them we end up with mislabeled plants that can be difficult or impossible to straighten back out.

Tony, with this contradiction botany has to struggle all time.
In the end it's everybody's own decition what he/she writes on the tag, more information or less information. For me myself the last instance is KEW - The Plant List http://www.theplantlist.org/
Also in official mediums, like this forum, you can use the name striatum, but you shouldn't use it as a variety.

 

[GuRu]

"a rose by any other name would smell as sweet" ......

Exactly Tom, that's true. Therefore I wrote in another thread when I cited analogously Mr. W. Richter.....Nature doesn't know names. Names are all man made and change, sometimes quickly.

 

[Guldal]

"a rose by any other name would smell as sweet"

A lovely quotation from The Poet - almost in a most buddhistic mode: "A finger pointing at the moon is not the moon. The finger is needed to know where to look for the moon, but if you mistake the finger for the moon itself, you will never know the real moon" (The Surangama Sutra)

 

[Phred]

there are no other major morphological differences than the clearly delineated, middle striation of the dorsal and the petals to set it apart from the typical form

But I beg to differ... the leaves on all of my ‘striatum’ are vastly different than all of my concolor. I have a few dozen concolor as well as several concolor chlorophyllum. The leaves on ‘striatum’ are heavy like the leaves of bellatulum or josianae (previously concolor longipedilum). The underside of the leaf color and pattern are also very different. When I was told that ‘striatum’ were regular concolor I got ready to dispose of them all. If concolor the flowers would be considered inferior... especially for breeding. Then I decided to hold onto them. I know I’m in the minority but I think in time this will be sorted out... I personally I think striatum appears to be more like josianae (longipedilum) than regular concolor

 

[DrLeslieEe]

It is best to maintain the different horticultural forms separately so as to trace a lineage during the breeding process. And to maintain the purity of that form until further notice.

Whether they will be officially recognized as separate varieties or species, many breed differently, like anitum vs adductum and wilheminae vs praestens.

Not only are flowers slightly different, leaf morphology and genetic contributions can vary as well.

One cannot deny that when we see the progeny (WBW vs JB, where the dorsals are smaller and darker in WBW in general). The leaves of anitum are also completely different from adductum in terms of color and mottling pattern (not only the black dorsal on anitum vs the striped one on adductum). I use anitum as an example because the WCSP still lists it as a synonym of adductum, which it clearly isn't.

 

[Kate Boyce-Miles]

But I beg to differ... the leaves on all of my ‘striatum’ are vastly different than all of my concolor. I have a few dozen concolor as well as several concolor chlorophyllum. The leaves on ‘striatum’ are heavy like the leaves of bellatulum or josianae (previously concolor longipedilum). The underside of the leaf color and pattern are also very different. When I was told that ‘striatum’ were regular concolor I got ready to dispose of them all. If concolor the flowers would be considered inferior... especially for breeding. Then I decided to hold onto them. I know I’m in the minority but I think in time this will be sorted out... I personally I think striatum appears to be more like josianae (longipedilum) than regular concolor
View attachment 20445 View attachment 20446

Beautiful Paphs. I notice you are growing them in terracotta pots? I have been thinking about doing that for some of my slipper orchids (I already do so for Cattleyas and Dendrobiums).

 

[Kate Boyce-Miles]

It is best to maintain the different horticultural forms separately so as to trace a lineage during the breeding process. And to maintain the purity of that form until further notice.

Whether they will be officially recognized as separate varieties or species, many breed differently, like anitum vs adductum and wilheminae vs praestens.

Not only are flowers slightly different, leaf morphology and genetic contributions can vary as well.

One cannot deny that when we see the progeny (WBW vs JB, where the dorsals are smaller and darker in WBW in general). The leaves of anitum are also completely different from adductum in terms of color and mottling pattern (not only the black dorsal on anitum vs the striped one on adductum). I use anitum as an example because the WCSP still lists it as a synonym of adductum, which it clearly isn't.

Is there much difference in the culture of anitum and adductum? Just interested as I would love to grow one of them. I personally prefer the look of anitum, but it would depend which would suit my conditions more.

 

[Tony]

I haven't found any major difference in the two culturally, both grow alongside my other multis without any particular difficulty.

 

[Kate Boyce-Miles]

I haven't found any major difference in the two culturally, both grow alongside my other multis without any particular difficulty.

Thank you for your response, Tony.

 

[DrLeslieEe]

I haven't found any major difference in the two culturally, both grow alongside my other multis without any particular difficulty.

Tony, would you do a pic of leaves side by side for the adductum vs anitum, with longest leaf measurements? Also what cultural conditions are your MF with? Thanks

 

[Tony]

My adductum are 21" and 18" ls, my largest anitum is 18" while the one that bloomed recently is 14". Anitum has more defined tesselation but it does show in adductum as well, leaf structure is completely different. Adductum could pass for a roths at a glance while anitum is much broader all the way to the leaf base.

I grow in a greenhouse, shaded with whitewash but bright inside, I don't have a dedicated light meter but using a phone app I see a typical minimum of about 1500 fc and the top shelf can see short peaks as high as 10,000 fc. I have my evaporative cooler set to kick on at 85° F but temps sometimes creep into the low to mid 90s. I aim for a minimum night temp of 70 during the summer and 60 in winter, though I've seen winter temps drop into the high 40s on the coldest nights. I try to keep humidity over 60%, but again it may vary some with spikes into the 90s during rain and dips during the hottest part of the day. I try to time my watering to minimize those dips.

 

[werner.freitag]

very interesting discussion !
just 2 remarks:

I sense that there is a actual tendency to create new species rather than regard them as varieties etc.
whatever, they varieties/species should have different names to be able to follow-up origin and breeding lines

the owner of a Paph nursery here in the mountains clearly identifies plants by the leaves when not in bloom
these guys know where the plants come from, we often dont !
I was recently getting some potentianum , tried to find data about their habitat, anybody knows ???

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Thanks Tony for the pics and cultural tips.

The anitum leaves are indeed unmistakable when you see them. I can recognize it immediately in a collection, almost as fast as I can recognize the randsii leaves or sometimes a mature sanderianum leaves.

Like Werner said, most of the time people use leaves to ID the wild plants when most are not in bloom.

PS reotentianum, its assume where callosum grows, it will thrive as well.

 

[GuRu]

very interesting discussion !
.......I was recently getting some potentianum , tried to find data about their habitat, anybody knows ???

Werner, that's a little bit off topic here and I hope Kate will forgive me, when I abuse her 'striatum' thread. There was an article about Paph. potentianum in 'Die Orchidee' 53(6) 2002 and I will copy the chapter about its origin here. I assume bei your name you are German or Austrian so I copy it in its original language. If I'm wrong feel free to tell me and I will translate this few sentences into English.

"1996 schrieb HERBERT BILLENSTEINER vom Palmengarten Frankfurt im 'Journal für den Orchideenfreund" über die Existenz von derartigen Pflanzen im Süden Thailands. Sie sollen in einem Gebiet wachsen, welches zwischen den Vorkommen von Paph. callosum und Paph. barbatum liegt. Die Pflanzen des Paph. potentianum sollen an einem ungenannten Berg in einer Höhenlage vorkommen, welche zwischen den Höhenlagen der anderen beiden Arten liegt. Während Paph. callosum in der höheren kühleren Region wächst, befinden sich die Vorkommen von Paph. barbatum in der tiefer gelegenen wärmeren Region."

That's all and I hope this helps at least a bit.

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Hey Guru, thanks for excerpt. Could you please translate it for us English speakers lol? I want to be educated on this topic as well. Many thanks!