Sharing this tiny primulinum. The pouch is so white, it's so hard to get the color without turning everything white.
Paph primulinum alba
- Thread starter gego
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ghostly
SlipperKing
Madd Virologist
Humm..
Trithor
Chico (..... the clown)
O
orchidman77
Guest
Whatever it is, it sure is pretty!
David
David
You guys mean its not what the label says?
Or is there a joke im missing?
Say it please
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Or is there a joke im missing?
Say it please
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
Trithor
Chico (..... the clown)
It is almost a tradition to question cochlopetalums on the forum. Sadly the truth is that they have been extensively interbred over the years (possibly significant interbreeding has occurred in nature to further complicate the situation). There are some features of each species which seem to distinguish them from each other and conversely hint at interbreeding as well. One of the only ways to be sure of a true species is if there is indisputable provenance. This although it is a beauty, shows a number of features which bring the label into question, so although it is labeled as primulinum, there is an unfortunate strong chance that it is a hybrid, with Avalon Mist being a good possibility.
(Believe me, nobody is laughing at you, I don't even post my cochlos unless they are one of the clones of which I am sure of their provenance, even then a debate as to wether they are true species is sure to occure)
(Believe me, nobody is laughing at you, I don't even post my cochlos unless they are one of the clones of which I am sure of their provenance, even then a debate as to wether they are true species is sure to occure)
Thank you Trithor. Appreciate that and do understand The grower is very known here in San Francisco and told me he got the flask from a very well known grower and breeder in the US
No i didnt mean that somebody was laughing at me I thought maybe you can share a joke hehehe i can use one right now Well, you guys are the expert ang its good you are here to spill the truth. I just love to grow them. Not good for business though, i dont even buy from ebay just because of this.
Again thanks.
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No i didnt mean that somebody was laughing at me I thought maybe you can share a joke hehehe i can use one right now Well, you guys are the expert ang its good you are here to spill the truth. I just love to grow them. Not good for business though, i dont even buy from ebay just because of this.
Again thanks.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
I suspect I know where this is leading. I think I would tend to agree
Yep...
Well, I got intrigued about this subject so I checked the history. First of all, the sibling is an "Albino Beauty X Full Moon" and the guy who made this is pretty known here. Don't want to say names but you can check his website and it's still available for sale. To be fair to him, I spend some of my time to get into the matter. The only features that were use to discribe was the size and some roughness to the surface of the dorsal. But I think I can add that Pinocchio pouches are long and kind of pointed at the bottom. The flower above is tiny just reaching 2 inches in spread. The plant is also tiny compared to a pinocchio hybrid.
Here's a Pinocchio hybrid with a 3.5" NS, first flower of the stem.
Here is the Pinocchio plant below left to the "fake" primulinum.
Here's the tenth flower of that Pinocchio hybrid next to the "fake" primulinum. Note even the tenth sequence is stil bigger that the "fake" one.
I'm not convinced to distrust this guy yet.
Here's a Pinocchio hybrid with a 3.5" NS, first flower of the stem.
Here is the Pinocchio plant below left to the "fake" primulinum.
Here's the tenth flower of that Pinocchio hybrid next to the "fake" primulinum. Note even the tenth sequence is stil bigger that the "fake" one.
I'm not convinced to distrust this guy yet.
Oh, here it is.
Tenth flower next to the "fake" one.
Tenth flower next to the "fake" one.
SlipperFan
Addicted
Please spell out the "characteristics" in question. White pouch? What else?
Nonetheless, I love the flower.
Nonetheless, I love the flower.
Thanks Dot.
So far it seems like the plant has the Avalon Mist's but then Avalon Mist is 75% primulinum. That goes to say that Avalon Mist has the primulinum's.
If I got this from the internet or from someone that I can't fully trust then due to some stories about some Californian breeders that I may have some doubt as to the authenticity of this plant.
I think you all trust this breeder in this furom and so I mostly get my plants from him and plants that were propagated by him. I can't even begin to think otherwise.
So far it seems like the plant has the Avalon Mist's but then Avalon Mist is 75% primulinum. That goes to say that Avalon Mist has the primulinum's.
If I got this from the internet or from someone that I can't fully trust then due to some stories about some Californian breeders that I may have some doubt as to the authenticity of this plant.
I think you all trust this breeder in this furom and so I mostly get my plants from him and plants that were propagated by him. I can't even begin to think otherwise.
Gego, you may now join my rant thread about the prevalence of mislabeling. It happens all too often and
is very often not the fault of the vendor or possibly the
breeder either. I don't know who to blame because Paph
classification seems all mixed-up everywhere.
As Dot said, the flower is lovely anyway.
is very often not the fault of the vendor or possibly the
breeder either. I don't know who to blame because Paph
classification seems all mixed-up everywhere.
As Dot said, the flower is lovely anyway.
Even the best and most careful breeders have to buy stock from somewhere (unless they jungle collect), so that's no guarantee its a true species.
I dont know enough about cochlios to comment - but it is unusual.
I dont know enough about cochlios to comment - but it is unusual.
Agreed. My understanding is that some breeder used a pinocchio to cross back to a primulinum then cross again to a primulinum and sell the result as primulinum alba.
Now that is bad. And i don't believe the breeder I'm talking about would not know a pinocchio. Can't and will not understand why he has to do that with his reputation if it's deliberately done. It doesn't make sense since alba form is not even rare in this species.
Anyways, this is not the first time I've learned happening but at least the ones I knew showed a very distinct anomaly and can be identified easily.
So far it seems like the white pouch comes out too white for an alba form.
Thanks.
Abax, thank you.
And as Dot said, spell out the beans. If we have some clues then we can minimize our rant. Thanks for the invite. It's all good.
Trithor
Chico (..... the clown)
I don't think anyone is even implying that the breeder whom you got the plant from is unethical or untrustworthy.
This group of species have extreme variation even amongst wild plants. I have seen large collections of wild plants where you would be hard pressed to consider them a single species. Identification of the plants was mainly accomplished by area of supposed origin. I watched plants being grouped and prepared for export. A lot of the 'collectors' do not (did not,I am speaking of trips in the early 80's) collect themselves, but fetch plants from various outlying village markets where the actual collectors are selling them. Even at these outlying points the plants were often mixtures of plants collected by various different collectors. The plants move from one point to another accumulating more collections as they move toward a center (much like rolling snowballs collecting snow). Then at an export point various collections are again grouped by supposed area of collection and then sold and exported. So even among the old collected plants there is some room for skepticism.
With cites and the ban on moving wild plants plants are still collected, but greater focus switched to seed propagation, this adds a new dimension as a purveyor with better clones can command better prices and market share. Add into this mix the fact that although the nursery owner most certainly is literate, the staff frequently are not. I have watched plants being moved from mixed flowering unlabeled seedlings to separate groups on the basis that casual inspection by somebody classifies that plant to be acertain species.
So a breeder in the USA or elsewhere has to rely on the accuracy of a whole host of steps prior to the plant/plants being sent to him. Your plant remains a beauty, only perhaps not a pure primulinum, but then again it might well be a true and pure primulinum.
This group of species have extreme variation even amongst wild plants. I have seen large collections of wild plants where you would be hard pressed to consider them a single species. Identification of the plants was mainly accomplished by area of supposed origin. I watched plants being grouped and prepared for export. A lot of the 'collectors' do not (did not,I am speaking of trips in the early 80's) collect themselves, but fetch plants from various outlying village markets where the actual collectors are selling them. Even at these outlying points the plants were often mixtures of plants collected by various different collectors. The plants move from one point to another accumulating more collections as they move toward a center (much like rolling snowballs collecting snow). Then at an export point various collections are again grouped by supposed area of collection and then sold and exported. So even among the old collected plants there is some room for skepticism.
With cites and the ban on moving wild plants plants are still collected, but greater focus switched to seed propagation, this adds a new dimension as a purveyor with better clones can command better prices and market share. Add into this mix the fact that although the nursery owner most certainly is literate, the staff frequently are not. I have watched plants being moved from mixed flowering unlabeled seedlings to separate groups on the basis that casual inspection by somebody classifies that plant to be acertain species.
So a breeder in the USA or elsewhere has to rely on the accuracy of a whole host of steps prior to the plant/plants being sent to him. Your plant remains a beauty, only perhaps not a pure primulinum, but then again it might well be a true and pure primulinum.
Thanks, thats a long one. So youre saying we really dont know what a real primulinum is and therrefore we dont know for sure how an Avalon Mist looks like. So how can we compare the two?
So a person posts an Avalon Mist and them some of us will say, hmmmmmm, that looks like a primulinum to me
There has got to be a specific character of this plant to not qualify as a species and it has not been spilled out yet.
Until then, the documentation of this plant is a sibling of 'Albino Beauty' X ' Full Moon'
Thank again Trithor
This plant has a really itty bitty flower that i didnt even pay attention to it. Now she is in a middle of a big controversy, hahaha.
Seriously, im concentrating right now to make sure all the seven buds on my St. Swithin will all open. Wish me luck.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
So a person posts an Avalon Mist and them some of us will say, hmmmmmm, that looks like a primulinum to me
There has got to be a specific character of this plant to not qualify as a species and it has not been spilled out yet.
Until then, the documentation of this plant is a sibling of 'Albino Beauty' X ' Full Moon'
Thank again Trithor
This plant has a really itty bitty flower that i didnt even pay attention to it. Now she is in a middle of a big controversy, hahaha.
Seriously, im concentrating right now to make sure all the seven buds on my St. Swithin will all open. Wish me luck.
Sent from my HTC One using Tapatalk
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