likespaphs
some call me brian
d'oh!
Paph thaianum?
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Eric Muehlbauer
Guest
I thought I had had 1 of those...years ago. It was a rather small plant (but not as small as thaianum) with an incredibly tiny bloom...less than an inch. I thought it was the ugliest niveum I had ever seen. It died...but recently I looked up the photo I took of it, and it was a fairly well known niveum cross...I think "rain Forest" was 1 parent? So it was a real niveum...just a dud.
You know what is insane about this matter.. thaianum has been around for years.. Ask the Thais. They will tell you they thought it was just an inferior niveum. Its not endangered I was told, but the USA seems to have their own rules they slap on top CITES with paphs for whatever reason. KyushuCalanthe told me about this, but I dont recall what he said the reason was for.
I am sending some flasks out of Taiwan to a couple of friends in the USA. I believe flasks are ok. I have sent paph flasks in the past no problems.
Brett
I am sending some flasks out of Taiwan to a couple of friends in the USA. I believe flasks are ok. I have sent paph flasks in the past no problems.
Brett
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AquaGem
Guest
Actually if they are not legal in the USA then flask are also not ok.. they need the paper trail... just like hangianum cannot go into the USA even in flasks.
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Eric Muehlbauer
Guest
All paphs are CITES 1, so collected plants are illegal in the US regardless of species, although if its a species already legally sold in the US they basically slip by. The Vietnamese species pose problems because Vietnam hasn't fulfilled its CITES obligations, according to US interpretation. However, Thailand is a regular exporter of orchids, including paphs, to the US, and has no problem with CITES documents...so flasked thaianum with documentation SHOULD have no problem being imported into the US........
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AquaGem
Guest
As far as I know, Thailand is not issuing CITES for thaianum bu that was almost 2 years ago. Maybe they are now. Better find out first.
Hi
I sent flowering size Thaianum plants out with CITES two months ago. I sent 20 plants to Australia. Not a problem at the recieving end. I have yet to send Thaianum flasks, they are available infrequently here, though more often out of Taiwan.
The reason some Paph species cant go into the USA is not CITES I am told, but US rule that is lumped on top of CITES. I will ask KyushuCalanthe to explain as I will talk to him on the weekend. He knows more about it as a USA citizen
Interestingly, Japan has similar rules on Paphs.
Its all odd to me as many Cyps are more rare than Paphs.. Yet are less restricted.
Brett
I sent flowering size Thaianum plants out with CITES two months ago. I sent 20 plants to Australia. Not a problem at the recieving end. I have yet to send Thaianum flasks, they are available infrequently here, though more often out of Taiwan.
The reason some Paph species cant go into the USA is not CITES I am told, but US rule that is lumped on top of CITES. I will ask KyushuCalanthe to explain as I will talk to him on the weekend. He knows more about it as a USA citizen
Interestingly, Japan has similar rules on Paphs.
Its all odd to me as many Cyps are more rare than Paphs.. Yet are less restricted.
Brett
If I bought some of the cyps I see on eBay from China the orchid police would set my house on fire! 
If I bought some of the cyps I see on eBay from China the orchid police would set my house on fire!
I am sure they would Eric
What I meant though is that it seems insane to me that Paphs are CITES appendix 1 and Cyps are appendix 2. I just sent some Cyps to Australia with my orchid collection and CITES here in Thailand were stunned when they found out that this was the case.
Brett
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AquaGem
Guest
I am sure they would Eric
What I meant though is that it seems insane to me that Paphs are CITES appendix 1 and Cyps are appendix 2. I just sent some Cyps to Australia with my orchid collection and CITES here in Thailand were stunned when they found out that this was the case.
Brett
Will the gassing process kill many of the plants? I know that Australia will gas all plants going in and then have to be quarantine for a period of time?
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Eric Muehlbauer
Guest
Leo had a detailed explanation of US policies...the Lacey Act. But basically, if the country of origin can prove that the parent plants were legally obtained, and only the propagations sent for export, then it should be OK, by US standards. Peru had legal exports of kovachii only about 3-4 years after its discovery. I'm sure if the Thai government signs off on the proper CITES documents, thaianum will not be a problem to import. Vietnam has always been the problem...at this point, I'm not even sure why. I think the government won't sign off on any exports...which makes no sense, as it would bring in money.
JeanLux
Well-Known Member
YEs, the methyl bromide is not nice to the plants, and we had a bad experience with Customs using a stronger than normal dosage as they claim to have found a snail. Now as I cleaned the plants, I do not believe it. Still its Customs, and you can fight those bureaucratic creatures.
Interestingly, while I lost some plants that I thought to be tough, all the paphs, including the Thaianum are alive and well in quarantine. They will stay there 3 months before release.
Brett
Keep checking on them!
Some good news. My Paphs have faired ok.. I lost some thaianum plants, but most are surviving the methyl bromide treatement. Sadly, I lost all my paph sanderianums. Two plants of malipoense made it ok, as did some hybrids.
I have thaianum flasks now anyway ex-Taiwan. I will send some to the USA soon, with CITES and Phyto, so I hope they get there ok.
Brett
I have thaianum flasks now anyway ex-Taiwan. I will send some to the USA soon, with CITES and Phyto, so I hope they get there ok.
Brett
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Eric Muehlbauer
Guest
I saw this thaianum on Ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-plant-Orchids...900?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a64458564
Unlike the Chinese sellers, this place in Thailand is offering CITES documentation, so I would assume that means that thaianum must be OK now for (proper) US importation.
http://cgi.ebay.com/1-plant-Orchids...900?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3a64458564
Unlike the Chinese sellers, this place in Thailand is offering CITES documentation, so I would assume that means that thaianum must be OK now for (proper) US importation.
likespaphs
some call me brian
but will the u.s. issue an import permit may be/is the question...
I am going to try and find out about the importation of the Paph plants to the USA. If I can get some answers I will post it.
Not rubbishing that Ebay seller, but I am cautious about thaianum plants now. I managed to purchase some CITES registered Paph thaianum in Northern Thailand. When I took the plants with the certification to Bangkok CITES to export, they were very surprised that the plants had been certified by the Chiang Mai CITES office as flask propagated. It was their belief that the plants were not propagated, but jungle collected. Still, they passed them as they looked nursery grown. Those plants passed the CITES OK and are in Australia now.
Interestingly, of those plants that have bloomed from that batch of plants, half have been species other than thaianum; I have leocochilum, goefroyeii and a hybrid, as well as thaianum from this. I have had other people tell me of similar experiences. So now I prefer to stick with flasks simply because there should be less likelyhood of them being rejected and flowering as some other species. Secondly, most flasks I have seen are Taiwanese propagated and selected parents. Hung Sheng had about 7 sibling crosses when I got my last lot of flasks from them and I could see parent pics on the website.
From what I have been told when I called USDA, you can import 12 flasks or less with no import cert. You only need the cert once you go over that number. You do need a phyto cert though, no matter what number of flasks.
Brett
Not rubbishing that Ebay seller, but I am cautious about thaianum plants now. I managed to purchase some CITES registered Paph thaianum in Northern Thailand. When I took the plants with the certification to Bangkok CITES to export, they were very surprised that the plants had been certified by the Chiang Mai CITES office as flask propagated. It was their belief that the plants were not propagated, but jungle collected. Still, they passed them as they looked nursery grown. Those plants passed the CITES OK and are in Australia now.
Interestingly, of those plants that have bloomed from that batch of plants, half have been species other than thaianum; I have leocochilum, goefroyeii and a hybrid, as well as thaianum from this. I have had other people tell me of similar experiences. So now I prefer to stick with flasks simply because there should be less likelyhood of them being rejected and flowering as some other species. Secondly, most flasks I have seen are Taiwanese propagated and selected parents. Hung Sheng had about 7 sibling crosses when I got my last lot of flasks from them and I could see parent pics on the website.
From what I have been told when I called USDA, you can import 12 flasks or less with no import cert. You only need the cert once you go over that number. You do need a phyto cert though, no matter what number of flasks.
Brett
