Phalaenopsis violacea var. alba 'Kate' HCC/AOS

[NYEric]

is it possible that the AOS make such mistake? :sob:

Ahhahhahhahhahahahaah!

Nice whatever. I just wish mine would bloom!

 

[Pete]

I just wish mine would bloom!

exactly. thats another thing i was thinking, if it were to be a hybrid helping to induce free flowering, mine only blooms in summer with my other violaceas.

 

[Paphman910]

That is one nice Phal hybrid! Wish my plant would grow and flower! It is a very reluctant grower and slow in my humid and hot condition!

Paphman910

 

[Pete]

i looked through all my old photos and it seems like i only have one other photo of these. i thought i had more but could not find them.. here is the only photo i come up with, a sibling of the plant in question..

 

[Sirius]

Aren't the siblings of a cross between violacea and micholitzii going to show genetic variance? Wouldn't some have lips like violacea and petals like micholitzii, and some have lips like micholitzii and petals like violacea?

Again, I am working from a limited understanding of orchid genetics, but I am pretty sure not all of the siblings from a hybrid cross bloom out the same.

Pete, I know it must be frustrating when you work so hard on raising and breeding these plants, for people to come in and challenge their identification. I want to reiterate that you have some great looking orchids, whatever their background.

 

[Pete]

its not frustrating. the plant is what it is, and apparently we dont know exactly what that is. nothing i can do about it. your the first one that brought this to my attention. again, i have looked at literally more than 50 of these in bloom in two seperate generations and the first one shown is the only one with this trait.

 

[Pete]

also "whatever their background" is complete crap. who the hell wants a plant that nobody knows what it is. if i have a P. sangii and everybody says its a hybrid, but we dont know exactly what it is, then, to me, it is the most useless plant there is. liking plants despite "whatever their background" is for windowsill growers who buy a plant at home depot every now and then. if i just wanted "great looking orchids" and didnt care about their pedigree, i would just buy ten dollar plants at whole foods that have brightly colored flowers and a tag that reads " Phal. exotic hybrid"

 

[Pete]

Paphman-phal violaceas should be THRIVING in hot and humid weather, fyi

 

[Sirius]

also "whatever their background" is complete crap. who the hell wants a plant that nobody knows what it is. if i have a P. sangii and everybody says its a hybrid, but we dont know exactly what it is, then, to me, it is the most useless plant there is. liking plants despite "whatever their background" is for windowsill growers who buy a plant at home depot every now and then. if i just wanted "great looking orchids" and didnt care about their pedigree, i would just buy ten dollar plants at whole foods that have brightly colored flowers and a tag that reads " Phal. exotic hybrid"

Pete,

Right, obviously not frustrated.

You know who likes plants that have great flowers, but no identification? Me. And I am pretty sure there are dozens of us heathens floating around the boards, so be careful not to catch our cooties.

I don't care one bit for the AOS, and their judging system. That organization is dying, and good riddance. The fact that I am completely untrained as both a judge, and a taxonomist, and could still spot that something was not quite right about your violacea speaks volumes about the judging of your plant.

In the future, maybe us "windowsill" growers can help you recoup the costs of your flask purchases that don't quite work out.

"Reputable" breeder doesn't mean what it used to I guess?

 

[ronan]

maybe we don't know exactly what it is, but we know what it's not.
and it's not a primary hybrid...or maybe Sweet is wrong, btw this is what AOS said.

 

[Heather]

Hm…I can sort of see where Pete's coming from here - I do care about the background and breeding of my plants. I am not a fan of unidentified or mis-identified plants, and if I was a breeder, I'd be really pissed about a situation such as this.

That said, I also completely agree with John's opinion of the AOS and their judging system. Kind of blew my mind that two growers, on a forum dedicated predominantly to SLIPPER orchids, picked up on this and none of the judges in Pete's center did. Talk about a mess, if this is indeed a hybrid!

 

[Sirius]

Hm…I can sort of see where Pete's coming from here - I do care about the background and breeding of my plants. I am not a fan of unidentified or mis-identified plants, and if I was a breeder, I'd be really pissed about a situation such as this.

That said, I also completely agree with John's opinion of the AOS and their judging system. Kind of blew my mind that two growers, on a forum dedicated predominantly to SLIPPER orchids, picked up on this and none of the judges in Pete's center did. Talk about a mess, if this is indeed a hybrid!

So I take it you aren't going to be buying any yellow flowered Neofinetia falcata?

It's fine to be obsessed with breeding and background, but not at the expense of those of us who can still enjoy growing orchids that don't have a manmade moniker. They are after all, just pretty flowers, no matter how hard we try to make them something fancier. In ten years these plants will all probably be dead anyway, and nobody will know they even existed. A little perspective goes a long way.

If you can't enjoy a flower without a name, sell the f-ing thing to someone who will enjoy it, and don't belittle them for it.

Damn, I just can't stop being baited to reply.

 

[NYEric]

Discretion is the better part of valor!

 

[Sirius]

You have every right to be pissed, Pete. You were sold something labeled a species which is probably a hybrid, and it may have been mislabeled intentionally. That is wrong on every level.

The plants are still worth something. I would be happy to own one, so if you decide to sell them in the future, put me down on your contact list.

 

[NYEric]

Oh, me too, and a big multi growth one, in bud, if you please!

 

[Pete]

wow, sirius. i could care less about getting awards. so the judges potentially missed something. perhaps it went to a team without a phal expert. i have no clue, i was not present at judging. the AOS certainly has its flaws but i would argue that you are in the wrong to unfairly judge the society that you are not even affiliated with and likely only know "what you hear" about them..
as far as your cynical reputable breeder comment, i have visited his nursery, spent a lot of time with him and his plants and taiwan, and just contacted him directly and he assured me that in his stock, he did two generations of breeing, before releasing these flask, and then i did another. so thats 3 generations at least where no micholitzii was introduced.
furthermore, i take personal offense at your comment about "n the future, maybe us "windowsill" growers can help you recoup the costs of your flask purchases that don't quite work out."- ill be damned if some random internet personality is going to call me out for some bs that is compelely uncalled for. I go above and beyond to constantly offer high quality, correctly labeled plants at a more than fair price.
maybe in ten years all of your plants will be dead, but not mine. i have many plants in my nursery that are well over ten years old, some closer to 20.
and for the record i wasnt trying to "belittle" the windowsill grower who buys unlabeled plants and doesnt care about pedigree. without these people the orchid industry would be dead. however, orchids are my life. my fun, my work, my research (currently pursuing a PhD) and i actually consider them more than "pretty flowers"

 

[Fabrice]

I didn't think this thread would be "so hot".

Ok Pete, your Taiwan seller tell that but is he sure there was not an hybrid of micholitzii in the mother plants? Are all their seedlings from wild collected plant?

The 2 mains problems in this thread:

-the lip of your awarded plant doesn't match really to the official botanist descriptions

-the AOS judges didn't see that (they could at least have questions about that) while us, "simple" members of a forum, have immediatly noted this possible problem.
There's a problem no??? We can have questions about competence of those judges, no?

 

[Pete]

of course. i have no idea of the source of those original source plants and i agree that something is up with the lip on the plant in question. all i said was that i bloomed out lots of others and never saw this trait on any others, along with other flowers on this same exact plant.
i just took offense to certain comments made. thats all. i felt that they were a little personal.
i could care less about the awards, as i have stated. in all honesty a friend wanted to bring it in for judging when he saw it in my greenhouse, while checking on some things when i was off island. also, dont sell this forum short by calling its members "simple"-we have one of the best, most knowledgeable and respectable groups i have come across.

 

[labskaus]

We are having the same discussion over here, and it is frustrating. Even though these things do have really nice flowers, I can't enjoy them as much as ones where I'm sure about the parentage.
Erose lip margins would make me suspicious, and maybe a lip with a pronounced diamond shape. Honestly, I wouldn't know what to do or think if there was just one plant in a large batch that looks faulty.

Don't blame the judges, these differences are quite subtile and hard to notice if you're not familiar with the problem. You can't know everything.

 

[Paphman910]

Paphman-phal violaceas should be THRIVING in hot and humid weather, fyi

Thanks Pete!
I am ALWAYS impressed in seeing photos of your collection! You are definately a "MASTER ORCHID GROWER"

Paphman910