Phrag. Robert Silich

[Clark]

Looks like he got the red right .

 

[Leo Schordje]

Robert could explain this better but he seems busy so I'll take a poke at it. 3N plants in theory are sterile. The chromosomes would normally get tangled when the reduction to the haploid state is supposed to happen when forming seed or pollen. Normally this turns out to be mostly true. Unfortunately plants don't read the text books and a variety of things apparently do happen. There are a number of documented cases of 3N plants being able to produce seed. I believe I read that the clone of Paph insigne 'Harefield Hall' breeds much like a 4N plant and yet it was documented to be a 3N clone. Robert could probabably tell you whether he counted chromosomes for the 3N Jason Fisher, It is possible for a 3N plant to throw small amounts of 1N haploid pollen and small amounts of 2N pollen. The fertility of 3N plants is nearly always much lower than 2N or 4N plants, but because of the huge number of pollen grains produced the low probability events do occur and are useful. I wager Robert will report the cross produced fewer flasks than a typical 2N cross would have produced. It is a wonderful thing that the plants don't know they are not supposed to breed, sometimes you get great flowers this way. Hope this helps
Leo

 

[slippertalker]

There are a number of counted 3N flowers that produce seeds, but they are exceptions, not the rule. They seem more apt to produce when crossed onto a 4N plant, and sometimes produce 3N, 4N, or aneuploidy. The aneuploids grow poorly or not at all for the most part and don't get much past flask protocorms. Examples are as indicated above in Paph insigne 'Harefield Hall', and Mtps Lyceana 'Stamperland' both of which produce polyploids, especially 4N progeny that are advantageous in hybridizing.

This is another reason why hybridizers need to understand their material in terms of ploidy, dominance and vitality as well as wishfull thinking.

 

[John M]

Leo and Bill; thanks VERY much for your input. This is something new to me. ....And, it's good news because I've got a number of nice (presumed), 3N plants (2N x 4N); but, thought they were breeding dead-ends with no hope of producing offspring. Now at least, I can try a few crosses and see if I get something out of them.

 

[Phrag-Plus]

There are a number of counted 3N flowers that produce seeds, but they are exceptions, not the rule. They seem more apt to produce when crossed onto a 4N plant, and sometimes produce 3N, 4N, or aneuploidy. The aneuploids grow poorly or not at all for the most part and don't get much past flask protocorms. Examples are as indicated above in Paph insigne 'Harefield Hall', and Mtps Lyceana 'Stamperland' both of which produce polyploids, especially 4N progeny that are advantageous in hybridizing.

This is another reason why hybridizers need to understand their material in terms of ploidy, dominance and vitality as well as wishfull thinking.

I'm completely agreeing with you Bill! That is the basis of hybridization and years of experiementations...

3N are producing very low number of viable seeds when it work it out too, as low as 1 or 2 seedlings, I find myself lucky when I'm getting 3 or 5...
And usualy it take many tries to get them too...

 

[NYEric]

Save some for me......:ninja: