SlipperFan
Addicted
That would be the rain water formula.
Again: http://los.lon.imag.net/MiscFile.asp -- these sheets are accurate. Watch out for vendors who aren't selling the right product with the right label.
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That would be the rain water formula.
Again: http://los.lon.imag.net/MiscFile.asp -- these sheets are accurate. Watch out for vendors who aren't selling the right product with the right label.
N
NeoNJ
Guest
SlipperFan
Addicted
I'm just trying to keep things straight. I've seen vendors at shows selling the well water formula and saying it's for any kind of water. I was very close to the creation of the rain water formula, and it bothers me to see the confusion wrong information causes.
K
keithrs
Guest
Off Rays website..... There more than one company that makes "MSU"
Orchid Fertilizer "Well Water" Formula
(MSU formulation)
Nitrogen (Nitrate 13.6%)
(Ammoniacal 5.7%) 19.00%
Phosphorus (as P2O5) 4.00%
Potassium (as K2O) 23.00%
Iron 0.16%
Manganese 0.08%
Sulfur 0.08%
Zinc 0.08%
Copper 0.08%
Boron 0.02%
Molybdenum 0.02%
Components: ammonium nitrate, ammonium phosphate, boric acid, copper sulfate, iron EDTA, manganese sulfate, potassium nitrate, potassium phosphate, sodium molybdate, zinc sulfate.
SlipperFan
Addicted
There is only one company that makes "MSU" -- that is GreenCare. There are many vendors who sell "MSU" -- or variations of those two formulas.
Directly from the labels:
GreenCare
19-4-23
Orchid Well Water Special
Guaranteed Analysis
Total Nitrogen……………………………….….19%
13.6% Nitrate Nitrogen
5.7% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O5)…………………..….4%
Potash (K2O)……………………………………23%
Calcium…………………………………..…….2.0%
Magnesium………………………………..……0.0%
Iron (Fe)……………………………………...0.160%
Manganese (Mn)…………………………..…0.080%
Zinc (Zn)…………………………………..…0.080%
Copper (Cu)……………………………….…0.080%
Boron (B)………………………………….…0.016%
Molybdenum (Mo)…………………………..0.016%
Derived from : Ammonium nitrate, ammonium phosphate, boric acid, copper sulfate, iron EDTA, manganese sulfate, potassium nitrate, sodium molybdate, and zinc sulfate
Potential Acidity: 140 lbs. Calcium carbonate equivalent per ton.
GreenCare
13-3-15
Orchid RO Water Special
Water Soluble Fertilizer
For Continuous Liquid Feeding Programs
Guaranteed Analysis
Total Nitrogen……………………………….….13%
12.5% Nitrate Nitrogen
0.7% Ammoniacal Nitrogen
Available Phosphate (P2O3)…………………..….3%
Potash (K2O)……………………………………15%
Calcium…………………………………..…….8.0%
Magnesium………………………………..……2.0%
Iron (Fe)……………………………………...0.177%
Manganese (Mn)…………………………..…0.088%
Zinc (Zn)…………………………………..…0.041%
Copper (Cu)……………………………….…0.044%
Boron (B)………………………………….…0.018%
Molybdenum (Mo)…………………………..0.018%
Derived from : boric acid, copper sulfate, iron EDTA, manganese sulfate, potassium phosphate, potassium nitrate, sodium molybdate, and zinc sulfate
Potential Basicity: 420 lbs. calcium carbonate equivalent per ton.
___________________________
If you are finding formulas other than the above, they may be derived from the MSU formulas, but they are not the true MSU (Michigan State University) formulas.
C'mon guys -- I know the history, was there when the rain water formula was created, and know the person who worked with the professor who came up with the original well water formula. It was formulated for the ground water at Michigan State University, specifically for their orchid collection. The rain water formula was requested by Bill Porter (Porter's Orchids) -- when he had an intern from MSU who told him about their fertilizer, he asked the prof. to formulate plant food to be used with rain water, because that's the water he uses. Thus, there are two "MSU" formulas, one for well/tap water and the other for rain/distilled/RO water.
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NeoNJ
Guest
Oh? who are the companies that make this formula ?
I really figured it would come in a bottle labeled "MSU fertilizer".
I got a bottle labeled "FEED ME".
Duh !
K
keithrs
Guest
Sorry Boss..... Won't happen again!!! :wink:
K
keithrs
Guest
Well... I better shut my mouth before I dig too deep of a hole...LOL
N
NeoNJ
Guest
Well, they all appear to have way to high a ratio of Nitrogen ...........
I think I'll stick with Dyna-Gro Bloom.
I think I'll stick with Dyna-Gro Bloom.
Rick
Well-Known Member
MSU is not a proprietary formula as is K-lite.
MSU is a "recipe" of salts to make a specific combination of NPK..... It's the same as Betty Crockers recipe for making pineapple upside down cake you can get out of a cook book.
The raw ingredients like calcium nitrate, mono potasium phosphate, mag sulfate,...... are all raw chemical salts available to anyone willing to put in the time and effort to pick them up from their respective industrial sources. Same as you can go to any grocery store to get flour, sugar, butter, pineapple.. for your cake recipes (they are not proprietary ingredients).
Subsequently Roberts flower supply can sell MSU that can be slightly different and not assembled by Greencare.
MSU is a "recipe" of salts to make a specific combination of NPK..... It's the same as Betty Crockers recipe for making pineapple upside down cake you can get out of a cook book.
The raw ingredients like calcium nitrate, mono potasium phosphate, mag sulfate,...... are all raw chemical salts available to anyone willing to put in the time and effort to pick them up from their respective industrial sources. Same as you can go to any grocery store to get flour, sugar, butter, pineapple.. for your cake recipes (they are not proprietary ingredients).
Subsequently Roberts flower supply can sell MSU that can be slightly different and not assembled by Greencare.
N
NeoNJ
Guest
Ok, makes sense to me. I just got a "recipe" from one of the many vendors who sells the "formula". Got it...
But whats with so many "formula" having such High Nitrogen content...?
SlipperFan
Addicted
Then it is not truly the MSU formula and should not be sold at such. That is deceptive.
MSU does not "own" this recipe -- they developed it. Greencare will make up any recipe you wish, but I'll bet they won't call it the MSU formula unless it is.
bullsie
Well-Known Member
NeoNJ, if you do anything with your plants, try one thing at a time and see how they do. As you take a few weeks for each change, you will see and be able to develop the kind of culture that they're needing. It will just take a little time and some 'experimentation'. The fact that you have two blooming means you have met their needs. But may need to tweek to get the remainder to follow suite.
Rick
Well-Known Member
Plants really do utilize more nitrogen than other nutrients.
But in general slow growing tropical perennial species need a lot less of everything. You can cut down the rate of use of any fertilizer to get down to a comfortable level of N.
traditionally my phrag species and hybrids did very lacklusterly (I know not a real word but fits their growth with me) until I increased the humidity and the water. I put them into a dutch leach tray and they had bottom water every morning for 15 minutes, and I also watered them periodically from the top. before, they weren't very happy. my ecua-bess hybrid actually stopped sulking and dying and has a bud
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NeoNJ
Guest
All of my Phrags are in ceramic containers with at least a minimum of 1-inch of water at all times. So they have bottom water all the time. Some are growing like mad, but few are spiking and/or blooming. Right now I have a Franz Glanz in bloom, and a Eric Young in spike, but that's about it.
I think if many are growing a lot, then it's only a matter of time until they flower.
If when you add epsom salts, your plants 'green up', (and you are wondering if there is really any benefit to this 'greening up') then this could be the sign that they aren't getting enough nutrition or the right balance. If they didn't do anything when you added epsom salts then it likely would be a sign that they already had everything they needed.
Having the bottom water is good, and likely why they are growing well. Moving water for phrags really helps, and pouring through the top really helps. Just water alone might not be the best, as having higher humidity might be a very helpful factor. I know in summer your humidity in nj will be higher than here in upstate ny (usually), but this time of year both here and there, our unaltered humidity would be the same, fairly low if you have electric or other un-moisturized heat. These plants would respond even more favorably if they had higher humidity in the winter
You ask why a picture might be necessary, because you describe what you are seeing. But, for a good experienced plant grower, much can be seen about a plant just by looking at it, or a picture of it. Someone who grows phrags could see something that your eye isn't trained to see, or doesn't know what they are seeing. .. green is green, except when it's yellow-green, or green with red tint etc (smile) or wilted green with brown leaf tips. Every nuance can provide details, that words don't really express. I say this for your benefit, because you asked why a picture would be necessary, but on my part not expecting photographs because you pointed out that you don't have a camera.
hopefully your plants will be flowering soon! .. and if they do flower, maybe borrow a phone camera from a friend
If when you add epsom salts, your plants 'green up', (and you are wondering if there is really any benefit to this 'greening up') then this could be the sign that they aren't getting enough nutrition or the right balance. If they didn't do anything when you added epsom salts then it likely would be a sign that they already had everything they needed.
Having the bottom water is good, and likely why they are growing well. Moving water for phrags really helps, and pouring through the top really helps. Just water alone might not be the best, as having higher humidity might be a very helpful factor. I know in summer your humidity in nj will be higher than here in upstate ny (usually), but this time of year both here and there, our unaltered humidity would be the same, fairly low if you have electric or other un-moisturized heat. These plants would respond even more favorably if they had higher humidity in the winter
You ask why a picture might be necessary, because you describe what you are seeing. But, for a good experienced plant grower, much can be seen about a plant just by looking at it, or a picture of it. Someone who grows phrags could see something that your eye isn't trained to see, or doesn't know what they are seeing. .. green is green, except when it's yellow-green, or green with red tint etc (smile) or wilted green with brown leaf tips. Every nuance can provide details, that words don't really express. I say this for your benefit, because you asked why a picture would be necessary, but on my part not expecting photographs because you pointed out that you don't have a camera.
hopefully your plants will be flowering soon! .. and if they do flower, maybe borrow a phone camera from a friend
Rick
Well-Known Member
At the beggining of this thread it sounded like plague and destruction. Now it sounds like growth is fine and just a lack of blooming.
If growth is fine but no blooming, then just give them time (like Charles said). I've had multigrowth pots of some species wait two years before blooming with plenty of new growth during the interval.
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NeoNJ
Guest
Well, not to cause a problem here, but as I indicated it truly is "plague and destruction" for SOME of the Phrags I own. Not all of them, but SOME of them. Time ? How much time ? How many growing seasons or months (since Phrags really don't have a dormant period and are always growing).
Hmmmm....Ok. Time. For Phrags (and Paphs) my understanding was that once a new growth matured, that growth should flower.
Hmmmm....Ok. Time. For Phrags (and Paphs) my understanding was that once a new growth matured, that growth should flower.
C
Clark
Guest
Duke Farms use to have tours of the non public areas.
While within the public conservatory, all plants were in bloom. But in the back, there were thousands of plants, not in bloom. Most were blooming size.
The room I remember the most, held all the Phrag. Grandes. Monster size plants. All were similar in size. Less than 20% were blooming.
Might be worth a visit.
While within the public conservatory, all plants were in bloom. But in the back, there were thousands of plants, not in bloom. Most were blooming size.
The room I remember the most, held all the Phrag. Grandes. Monster size plants. All were similar in size. Less than 20% were blooming.
Might be worth a visit.
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