Rlc. Ranger Six ‘A-OK’ (AM/AOS)

[Carmella.carey]

Unfortunately, like most things in orchid growing, I don't think it's quite so simple as just giving more water to prevent petal reflexing. For a while I was also thinking the same thing, but then when some of my prized plants were opening up, I made sure to give them lots of water, only to observe pretty significant petal reflexing. Other plants that I left drier had perfectly straight dorsals (I've also observed variability between flowers on the same inflorescence). In general, I also let my plants dry out more in the winter, watering approximately every 10 days, instead of the 2 times a week I water in the spring/summer. Here is a side-by side comparison of my C. Joyce Hannington blooming ~8 months apart. I water much more frequently in May, when things are growing vigorously, then I do in February.
View attachment 38462

Here are two flowers on the same spike of Rlc. George King 'Serendipity'
View attachment 38464
Ultimately, I think it's likely a combination of water, temperature and plant genetics. I can see how cooler nights (and days) in winter would result in buds opening more slowly, perhaps this also helps to account for the better form. Maybe a bud bursting open quickly on a hot, sunny day is more likely to reflex? It could also just be general variability, everyone says so many things have to line up for a plant to get awarded, it's part of the mystery and thrill of growing these wonders.

I've heard this is a problem for dowiana do to it's mid summer bloom season the buds expand too quickly, the flowers usually end up pre-maturely collapsing.
-Patrick

 

[DrLeslieEe]

I find that the shape of Cattleya flowers hold best if your root wet zone and the ambient humidity are in balance. In bud, never let dry (moist like Phals) and humidity 60-70% daytime and 45-60% nights are best. Cooler nights helps but more for color.

Also feeding CalMg (Epsom salt minimum monthly) and silicone aids in flower structure holding better form.

 

[southernbelle]

Unfortunately, like most things in orchid growing, I don't think it's quite so simple as just giving more water to prevent petal reflexing. For a while I was also thinking the same thing, but then when some of my prized plants were opening up, I made sure to give them lots of water, only to observe pretty significant petal reflexing. Other plants that I left drier had perfectly straight dorsals (I've also observed variability between flowers on the same inflorescence). In general, I also let my plants dry out more in the winter, watering approximately every 10 days, instead of the 2 times a week I water in the spring/summer. Here is a side-by side comparison of my C. Joyce Hannington blooming ~8 months apart. I water much more frequently in May, when things are growing vigorously, then I do in February.
View attachment 38462

Here are two flowers on the same spike of Rlc. George King 'Serendipity'
View attachment 38464
Ultimately, I think it's likely a combination of water, temperature and plant genetics. I can see how cooler nights (and days) in winter would result in buds opening more slowly, perhaps this also helps to account for the better form. Maybe a bud bursting open quickly on a hot, sunny day is more likely to reflex? It could also just be general variability, everyone says so many things have to line up for a plant to get awarded, it's part of the mystery and thrill of growing these wonders.

Thanks so much for your thoughtful response. I really appreciate it. I do try to be aware of things in spike and not let them dry as I do seem to get quite a few spikes start to swell a bit then get dry tips, but I actually didn’t go as long this winter as I usually do which can be 10-14, especially on bigger pots.
I’ve also had some plants, both Catts and Paphs have a terrific (being told by people who know AM quality) first bloom, that on 2nd and 3rd are not as good, or that bloom better in the fall with 3-5 flowers per spike and have 1-3 in the winter (Jan) that are not as good form. So, you are right, I think.
I used to grow roses (hybrid teas) and used to say, “only God can make a perfect rose.” Two of the same plant, right next to each other and planted at the same time with the exact cultural conditions—one could live and the other die. Or the buds would swell and just as they would open wind, rain, or any number of things would damage a flower. I did my best and accepted what I got, being really thankful when everything lined up and I could cut the (near) perfect dozen.
So, continuing to learn from so many who are helpful here, I’ll do my best and accept the imperfection that most often comes, being extremely thankful when the majority of things happen in my favor.

 

[terryros]

Unfortunately, like most things in orchid growing, I don't think it's quite so simple as just giving more water to prevent petal reflexing. For a while I was also thinking the same thing, but then when some of my prized plants were opening up, I made sure to give them lots of water, only to observe pretty significant petal reflexing. Other plants that I left drier had perfectly straight dorsals (I've also observed variability between flowers on the same inflorescence). In general, I also let my plants dry out more in the winter, watering approximately every 10 days, instead of the 2 times a week I water in the spring/summer. Here is a side-by side comparison of my C. Joyce Hannington blooming ~8 months apart. I water much more frequently in May, when things are growing vigorously, then I do in February.
View attachment 38462

Here are two flowers on the same spike of Rlc. George King 'Serendipity'
View attachment 38464
Ultimately, I think it's likely a combination of water, temperature and plant genetics. I can see how cooler nights (and days) in winter would result in buds opening more slowly, perhaps this also helps to account for the better form. Maybe a bud bursting open quickly on a hot, sunny day is more likely to reflex? It could also just be general variability, everyone says so many things have to line up for a plant to get awarded, it's part of the mystery and thrill of growing these wonders.

I agree with you.

 

[southernbelle]

I find that the shape of Cattleya flowers hold best if your root wet zone and the ambient humidity are in balance. In bud, never let dry (moist like Phals) and humidity 60-70% daytime and 45-60% nights are best. Cooler nights helps but more for color.

Also feeding CalMg (Epsom salt minimum monthly) and silicone aids in flower structure holding better form.

Thanks, Leslie! I don’t keep them that moist, ever, so will experiment. I knew silica was good for our bones, did not know for orchids. What exactly do you use?

 

[DrLeslieEe]

Thanks, Leslie! I don’t keep them that moist, ever, so will experiment. I knew silica was good for our bones, did not know for orchids. What exactly do you use?

In terms of ‘moist’, water one side (or sides) of the pot in between waterings by spraying a water stream with sprayer. That works too.

This is the silica that works well.

DynaGrow Protekt:

https://dyna-gro.com/product/pro-tekt-0-0-3/

 

[tomp]

In terms of ‘moist’, water one side (or sides) of the pot in between waterings by spraying a water stream with sprayer. That works too.

This is the silica that works well.

DynaGrow Protekt:

https://dyna-gro.com/product/pro-tekt-0-0-3/

Regarding Pro-tekt be sure to follow instructions. As I recall mixing in same solution with other products can cause precipitation.
Here is a quip from the instructions:

Note: Because a high pH is required to keep Pro-TeKt® in solution, the concentrate cannot be mixed with any acidic fertilizer. Therefore, apply Pro-TeKt® separately when using a single head injector.

 

[terryros]

Regarding Pro-tekt be sure to follow instructions. As I recall mixing in same solution with other products can cause precipitation.
Here is a quip from the instructions:

Note: Because a high pH is required to keep Pro-TeKt® in solution, the concentrate cannot be mixed with any acidic fertilizer. Therefore, apply Pro-TeKt® separately when using a single head injector.

It is also primarily a potassium ion so a good bit of K+ is given. You have to decide if you are a low potassium or high potassium fan to know what to think about this.

 

[tomp]

It is also primarily a potassium ion so a good bit of K+ is given. You have to decide if you are a low potassium or high potassium fan to know what to think about this.

Thank you Terry.
Yet something else I have not thought about. can you say more.

 

[terryros]

There is a school of thought, that was an intense debate some years ago on Slippertalk, that orchids grow better long term with a low potassium diet. This led FirstRay to have K-Lite fertilizer developed, which I use. Depending on how how often, and how much, you used Pro-tekt silica you might be joining the high potassium school. Diatomaceous earth also supplies silica if you are worried that your plants are deficient and I think this wouldn’t be carrying increased potassium. I hope that Ray sees this and comments.

 

[tomp]

There is a school of thought, that was an intense debate some years ago on Slippertalk, that orchids grow better long term with a low potassium diet. This led FirstRay to have K-Lite fertilizer developed, which I use. Depending on how how often, and how much, you used Pro-tekt silica you might be joining the high potassium school. Diatomaceous earth also supplies silica if you are worried that your plants are deficient and I think this wouldn’t be carrying increased potassium. I hope that Ray sees this and comments.

Thanks again Terry, I knew there is a low K school of thought. I did not see the ST debate so will try to find. I did not know Pro-tekt would skew the stew, so to speak. While I am not a fan of Dynagrow for various reasons I have used this product, on occasion, in the past, in an attempt to harden up some flower spikes. I must admit i was not very consistent or controlled so had no evidence.
these days I have too many plants and not enough time so try to follow the “keep it simple” protocol.

 

[DrLeslieEe]

I use low potassium K lite on rotation with normal MSU, Miracle Grow, fish emulsion and foliar fertilizer. I then use kelp, futilis, Epsom salts and Superthrive as additives occasionally. I use Pro-tekt only once coming into fall and spring. I always check pH is 5.8-6.2, TDS 300-400 ppm and EC 0.5-1.0.

This regiment is a LOT of work but plants respond to this better than using one item all year.

Oh and I use RO water for all above, flushing in between .

 

[terryros]

I use low potassium K lite on rotation with normal MSU, Miracle Grow, fish emulsion and foliar fertilizer. I then use kelp, futilis, Epsom salts and Superthrive as additives occasionally. I use Pro-tekt only once coming into fall and spring. I always check pH is 5.8-6.2, TDS 300-400 and EC 0.5-1.0. This regiment is a lot of work but plants respond to this better than using one item all year.

Oh and I use RO water for all above, flushing in between.

Leslie, you win the prize, but you left out the kitchen sink! I flirted with something similar but realized I couldn’t sustain it as I got older.

 

[southernbelle]

Leslie, you win the prize, but you left out the kitchen sink! I flirted with something similar but realized I couldn’t sustain it as I got older.

But we don’t have the awards he does, either!! Oh, those elusive awards…

 

[DrLeslieEe]

But we don’t have the awards he does, either!! Oh, those elusive awards…

You will in time! They just get bigger and stronger.