mormodes
Well-Known Member
Does anyone know if Paph tranlienianum is legal in the USA? Or have a link to the source document? Either Google is mute or I can't structure a correct search for the current (2012) info. sigh. Its hell getting old.
tranlienianum legal?
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Kevin
Well-Known Member
This from the same person who said that "most people suck."
I like tranlienianum.
Not sure of the legality of it in the U.S. Sorry.
likespaphs
some call me brian
i like it too, at least in photos
but people, well, that depends....
i kinda sorta think they can be, depending on the source
[URL="hengduanbiotech.com"]hengduanbiotech.com[/URL] has them (but the website isn't working now) and i think all their Paphs are legal here, when imported through them, but i could easily be wrong
but people, well, that depends....
i kinda sorta think they can be, depending on the source
[URL="hengduanbiotech.com"]hengduanbiotech.com[/URL] has them (but the website isn't working now) and i think all their Paphs are legal here, when imported through them, but i could easily be wrong
This from the same person who said that "most people suck."
I like tranlienianum.
Not sure of the legality of it in the U.S. Sorry.
never said my opinion counts,but look at the thing hahaha!
I would say if you have a source and want one,get it.Just dont let anyone knoe you have it.
mormodes
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I thought it might be a situation of 'depends on who you get it from'. I guess there are no easy answers in life, *G* Guess I'll stick with my catts.
And I appreciate the honest appraisal of your opinion of the flower. If there's *anything* I can't stand its the myriad of 'oooh, pretty' comments especially when looking at a completely horrendous flower. Granted there's a lot of YMMV in appraising beauty, but sometimes you gotta tell the Emperor he ain't wearing any clothes.
mormodes
Well-Known Member
I thought gigantifolium especially anitum depended on who you got them from too. Decker's were OK but (argh I forget who) had legal paperwork yet his were confiscated. I guess keeping track of the ins and outs of this stuff staves off Alzheimer's.
likespaphs
some call me brian
Sam at the Orchid Inn
I thought Decker's were fine too,but I know a couple of people who got their plants awarded and had the proper paperwork from Decker.The ''powers that be'' at the AOS said they were still illegal.
slippertalker
Well-Known Member
That rule was changed at the last JC meeting in Louisiana. Now the Decker version is okay with backup documentation.
Tranlienum not legal, hangianum not legal, vietnamense only legal from Antec, etc... unless the government believes that these plants are found in China. I had this conversation with Kerry Richards a long time ago bout plants he had with paperwork from a regional Vietnamese CITES office but the central Vietnam office said that no paperwork was given from them; therefore the US govt seized the plants.
I had this conversation with Kerry Richards a long time ago bout plants he had with paperwork from a regional Vietnamese CITES office but the central Vietnam office said that no paperwork was given from them; therefore the US govt seized the plants.mormodes
Well-Known Member
Thanks everyone. I thought it might be the case that a paper trail was still necessary.
Rick
Well-Known Member
Tranlienum not legal, hangianum not legal, vietnamense only legal from Antec, etc... unless the government believes that these plants are found in China.
With Holger Perner's Chinese operation, documented legal versions of these plants are supposedly trickling in.
We all talked about Pete in Hawaii getting some hangianum from Holger sometime before the WOC.
And how did these plants get into China? Did the Peoples' Glorious Democrtic Army move the borders again?!
mormodes
Well-Known Member
Someone here posted that the border was under dispute, but beyond that it was either Perner or Averynov who wrote that these plants are all over the place, just not noticed before becasue no one looked up at the cliffsides. Cootes mentions the same thing in his new book on Phillippine orchids. That many areas haven't been well studied by people with some sort of botanic knowledge.
Leo Schordje
wilted blossom
From my conversations with Averynov while driving him from airport (Chicago) to Milwaukee and back (this means I had two 90 minute conversations with Leonid, he is very pleasant to talk with)
Leonid Averynov does not feel the occurances of various Vietnamese paphs in and around Malipo, China are natural. He feels these populations have been seeded or transplanted. Then after these transplanted plants have settled in and looked natural, they were pointed out to botany and agriculture students doing graduate work from the various Chinese universities. The articles published by the young, eager and less than cynical students then serve as 'proof' that these are Chinese species and therefore legal to export under Chinese CITES documentation.
However, science as such never limits itself to a single authority, so as long as one or another authority disagrees, there is the claim that these species are indeed Chinese in origin.
As a hobby grower I am glad that there is an odd 'disjunct' aggregation of the finest of the Vietnamese species in the hills around the town of Malipo, China as it means in the USA there is a chance I can get a few documented as being acquired legally plants. :evil: The documentation by Chinese graduate students as 'real', of these outlier populations, does screw up conservation efforts. In that some species appear in less need of protection than they really are.
Malipo for centuries was a town that specialized in trading medicinal and culinary herbs and spices into China from Vietnam and all points south and west from there. In more modern times it has a large flower market that specializes in selling seasonal flowers to the Chinese markets. The practice of planting medicinal plants into the forests on the hills around Malipo is a practice used for generations to try and increase supply of plants needed for market. Dr Averynov has good reason to be skeptical of the claim that these disjunct populations are legitimate. On the other hand, a USFWS official really can't argue that articles published by Chinese universities are false just because they have an anecdotal objection from one scientist. Understandably the Chinese government is touchy when you tell them their universities are not doing good research. :evil: USFWS has to go along with the Chinese government
So the saga goes on. It will be interesting to see if all of a sudden, several years from now, the USFWS will suddenly go back and try to seize plants from US nurseries who in good faith tried to legally import these horticulturally desirable species.
Leonid Averynov does not feel the occurances of various Vietnamese paphs in and around Malipo, China are natural. He feels these populations have been seeded or transplanted. Then after these transplanted plants have settled in and looked natural, they were pointed out to botany and agriculture students doing graduate work from the various Chinese universities. The articles published by the young, eager and less than cynical students then serve as 'proof' that these are Chinese species and therefore legal to export under Chinese CITES documentation.
However, science as such never limits itself to a single authority, so as long as one or another authority disagrees, there is the claim that these species are indeed Chinese in origin.
As a hobby grower I am glad that there is an odd 'disjunct' aggregation of the finest of the Vietnamese species in the hills around the town of Malipo, China as it means in the USA there is a chance I can get a few documented as being acquired legally plants. :evil: The documentation by Chinese graduate students as 'real', of these outlier populations, does screw up conservation efforts. In that some species appear in less need of protection than they really are.
Malipo for centuries was a town that specialized in trading medicinal and culinary herbs and spices into China from Vietnam and all points south and west from there. In more modern times it has a large flower market that specializes in selling seasonal flowers to the Chinese markets. The practice of planting medicinal plants into the forests on the hills around Malipo is a practice used for generations to try and increase supply of plants needed for market. Dr Averynov has good reason to be skeptical of the claim that these disjunct populations are legitimate. On the other hand, a USFWS official really can't argue that articles published by Chinese universities are false just because they have an anecdotal objection from one scientist. Understandably the Chinese government is touchy when you tell them their universities are not doing good research. :evil: USFWS has to go along with the Chinese government
So the saga goes on. It will be interesting to see if all of a sudden, several years from now, the USFWS will suddenly go back and try to seize plants from US nurseries who in good faith tried to legally import these horticulturally desirable species.
chrismende
Well-Known Member
Holger Perner's plants are grown in vitro in his lab and he has CITES permits for those brought into the US.
This is so silly. If vietnam did not, as they insist, issue permits for "vietnamese" plants then how could they be legal!
