Early K-lite results

[Ray]

<soapbox>

All of the sniping seen on SO many forums and other internet sites, this thread ought to be documented and held as an example of how the internet can be SO helpful, utilizing the thinking and experience of folks for disparate situations to come to the aid of another.

</soapbox>


That, of course, depends upon us actually finding a resolution.

 

[gonewild]

That, of course, depends upon us actually finding a resolution.

We already have found at least 6 resolutions! :rollhappy:

 

[Rick]

We already have found at least 6 resolutions! :rollhappy:

And we've only called each other "blithering idiots" once or twice:rollhappy:

 

[Rick]

OK

I think its critical for Renee to get a usable conductivity or TDS meter.

Her tap water is too unstable
The rain events would cause unstable sump/tray TDS concentrations


I think we have some consensus that we'd like to see longer term levels of fert in the pot. Ideally around 50ppm.

But if irrigation water fluctuates from 20-200 ppm and rainfall goes from 3 to 8 inches per month, with measurable rainfall 15 days a month, then you won't have a clue to add or not without TDS measurements.

It may pay off to go to 1000+ ppm in August/September if you know your going to throw 1/2 of it away each day. But no point in dosing at more than 500 in the lower rainfall months when you only get a few inches per month and the sump water still says you have 300ppm

 

[Rick]

Using a TDS meter for measuring sump water is like driving a car, and adjusting gas pedal for the conditions.

 

[gonewild]

On the Klite chart that comes out to 150ppm N.

Even taking out the 60ppm of your "RO water". That's 89% on target using a 1/2 tsp!!

Now if we take out for waters of hydration, then its probably spot on.

89% is close enough since no one actually knows how many PPMs is optimum.
In reality the dose should probably fluctuate with the weather and stage of growth of the plants growing outside anyway. Plants growing outside under fluctuating conditions are going to have different needs from plants growing in a consistent indoor environment.

If you can manage to get nutrients supplied with every watering very low dosage rates will be good. But if you can't apply fertilizer every time plants are watered the dose should be increased.

If I were Renee I would increase the dosage to 1 tsp per gallon and apply everyday for a week, rain or shine (assume some rain). Then I would back off to 1/2 tsp per gallon and apply several (more than 2) times per week. I would monitor the media water ppm content and expect it to be in the 500ppm range.
I would continue this until I could set up a roof or test the tray method to see if the nutrients stay in the trays well enough. (assuming the trays of water are not a mosquito problem). And I suspect I would be satisfied enough that I would not need the roof. (But if I was Renee I would hide this fact and get a greenhouse anyway).

That's what I would do to try to satisfy the yellow leaf problem. Although I suspect the yellow leaves are dropping by normal growth and not a phosphorous problem. Renee sees an increase in leaf drop because the plants have increased their growth. (Still no picture showing an ailing plant).

 

[gonewild]

OK

I think its critical for Renee to get a usable conductivity or TDS meter.

Her tap water is too unstable
The rain events would cause unstable sump/tray TDS concentrations


I think we have some consensus that we'd like to see longer term levels of fert in the pot. Ideally around 50ppm.

But if irrigation water fluctuates from 20-200 ppm and rainfall goes from 3 to 8 inches per month, with measurable rainfall 15 days a month, then you won't have a clue to add or not without TDS measurements.

It may pay off to go to 1000+ ppm in August/September if you know your going to throw 1/2 of it away each day. But no point in dosing at more than 500 in the lower rainfall months when you only get a few inches per month and the sump water still says you have 300ppm

Hey this is not fun when there is nothing to argue about.

 

[gonewild]

Using a TDS meter for measuring sump water is like driving a car, and adjusting gas pedal for the conditions.

Without it it is like bad GPS..... recalculating.

 

[keithrs]

That's what I would do to try to satisfy the yellow leaf problem. Although I suspect the yellow leaves are dropping by normal growth and not a phosphorous problem. Renee sees an increase in leaf drop because the plants have increased their growth. (Still no picture showing an ailing plant).

I agree... I think it would be a different case if it was new growth was also turning. I'll be interested to see how the new k-lite growth does for her the next couple of years. None of the pics posted have me too concerned. I see no reason for a plant to hold on to old growth if its getting all it needs from its feed.

I agree with Rick on getting a TDS/pH meter. I think it's super important to know where your at with fertilizer/water levels... especially when you have "problems" that are thought to be related to feed. Important to keep a log too!

 

[Stone]

Using a TDS meter for measuring sump water is like driving a car, and adjusting gas pedal for the conditions.

But of not much use if a standard method is not used each time! You could have totally different figures compared to media water. Depending on the quantity of water in the dish. Then all you really see is if its going up or down but not necessarily what the plant roots are living with.

The standard is to slowly pour through enough water ( 2 HOURS AFTER normal watering -I presume to bring any dried feed back into solution ) to give you 50ml of drainage and measure that. The figures for saturated extract and other methods (labs) will be different, usually lower. If you know your fertilizer well (which you do) you can then work out how much N your plant is getting and make adjustments if needed.

If you measure 100ml drainage you would have half the figure of 50ml but the roots wouldn't.

 

[Rick]

But of not much use if a standard method is not used each time! You could have totally different figures compared to media water. Depending on the quantity of water in the dish. Then all you really see is if its going up or down but not necessarily what the plant roots are living with.

The standard is to slowly pour through enough water ( 2 HOURS AFTER normal watering -I presume to bring any dried feed back into solution ) to give you 50ml of drainage and measure that. The figures for saturated extract and other methods (labs) will be different, usually lower. If you know your fertilizer well (which you do) you can then work out how much N your plant is getting and make adjustments if needed.

If you measure 100ml drainage you would have half the figure of 50ml but the roots wouldn't.

I would agree with this procedure if the media actually held up some nutrients (like bark or CHC), but the pass through rate indicates that hold up in the pot is extremely low, and compounded by high rain flush rates. The tray water is as good a monitoring site as anything else. And yes monitoring rise and fall in the tray is the point. This media is meant to wick up into the pot from a sump. So whats in the tray eventually gets to the roots via wicking.

 

[keithrs]

What do you think about this? The color change has happened on new growth and no leave have fallen. It's an Epi. capricornu

 

[gonewild]

What do you think about this? The color change has happened on new growth and no leave have fallen. It's an Epi. capricornu
]

What are the little white square things in the leaf axils?

 

[keithrs]

What are the little white square things in the leaf axils?

I had just got done spreading sluggo when I saw this.

 

[gonewild]

I had just got done spreading sluggo when I saw this.

You might want to start a new thread for this problem. Since it is on new growth and not old it is a different problem.

 

[dodidoki]

What do you think about this? The color change has happened on new growth and no leave have fallen. It's an Epi. capricornu

As I wrote before, but noone can hear me, it is typical P deficiancy syndrome.
It is I think because of K lite, it contains very few P, but faster plants need more P. P is a reuptekable nutritient, older leaves turn red, later yellow ands fall down. I advise too, that K-lite formula must be modified increasing P to N/P 13/6 instead of 13/3.

 

[Rick]

As I wrote before, but noone can hear me, it is typical P deficiancy syndrome.
It is I think because of K lite, it contains very few P, but faster plants need more P.

We heard, but this is also not universal for fast growing plants that I have.

I have some very fast/large Cattleyas and Dendrobiums that are putting up beautiful new growth.

As new growth did it start out big and green, and then turn yellow red all at once? Or did it grow all the way to that large size red/yellow from the very start?

I would suspect cold/dry snap to change a full size new growth like that.

 

[Erythrone]

I looks like typical P deficiancy to me too.

 

[gonewild]

I looks like typical P deficiancy to me too.

So early in this thread P deficiency was described as normal new growth and yellow/red leaves on old growth dropping.

Now it is the opposite?

 

[Rick]

So early in this thread P deficiency was described as normal new growth and yellow/red leaves on old growth dropping.

Now it is the opposite?

Exactly.

Under P deficiency, new growth tries to translocate from the old growth. If still insuficient P in the old growth, the new growth would be stunted too. In this case the new growth is bigger than old healthy looking growths.