Early K-lite results

[tomkalina]

Hi Rick,

Using a new membrane and filters on my R/O (thanks Ray) I filled my 55 gal drum with 50 gal of pure R/O and got a TDS reading of <10 ppm and a pH of 7.0. After adding 1/3 tsp/gal of K-Lite (16.5 tsp) and mixing well, the readings were 340 ppm TDS and 6.5 pH. With 12.9% total N in K-Lite the reading indicates I have 44 ppm N in that batch or slightly less than the 50 ppm I would have expected. I'll take readings again tomorrow in case all of the K-Lite may not have dissolved.

 

[gonewild]

Hi Rick,

Using a new membrane and filters on my R/O (thanks Ray) I filled my 55 gal drum with 50 gal of pure R/O and got a TDS reading of <10 ppm and a pH of 7.0. After adding 1/3 tsp/gal of K-Lite (16.5 tsp) and mixing well, the readings were 340 ppm TDS and 6.5 pH. With 12.9% total N in K-Lite the reading indicates I have 44 ppm N in that batch or slightly less than the 50 ppm I would have expected. I'll take readings again tomorrow in case all of the K-Lite may not have dissolved.

Can you weigh 16.5 tsp to see the actual grams weight?

 

[tomkalina]

Next time, I'll take an actual weight of the K-Lite; this time all I did was use level teaspoons. I also noticed the K-Lite particles were not homogenous in size - i.e. some particles were large and flat and some were like grains of sand, so maybe an exact weight measurement is the way to go.

 

[gonewild]

Next time, I'll take an actual weight of the K-Lite; this time all I did was use level teaspoons. I also noticed the K-Lite particles were not homogenous in size - i.e. some particles were large and flat and some were like grains of sand, so maybe an exact weight measurement is the way to go.

For your purpose the volume measure is close enough. But if a person is only using 1 or 2 tsp in a batch an error might be large.
I doubt such error would cause any growing issue because on average the next batch would likely average the nutrients out.

But for the calculations we are trying to do it would be good to know the weight and the resulting ec reading.

 

[Rick]

Hi Rick,

the reading indicates I have 44 ppm N in that batch or slightly less than the 50 ppm I would have expected. I'll take readings again tomorrow in case all of the K-Lite may not have dissolved.

Dang that's already 88% of target. Pretty close for government work (as they say).

Also remeber that the volume to actual mass is 15% low (i.e. a 1/3 tsp (which should be 1.45 grams, is actually only 1.23 grams of material). So that could be the 12% off target you are seeing right there.

 

[Rick]

Next time, I'll take an actual weight of the K-Lite; this time all I did was use level teaspoons. I also noticed the K-Lite particles were not homogenous in size - i.e. some particles were large and flat and some were like grains of sand, so maybe an exact weight measurement is the way to go.

Yes Ray estimated a 15% difference between volume/mass.

perfect Tom

 

[consettbay2003]

I bought a cheap coffee bean grinder and blitzed the K-Lite to a uniform powder. Now I sleep better a night.

 

[Rick]

I wonder what is the cause of the variation?
If they add enough CaOH to raise it 180ppm doesn't that add a lot of extra Ca?
How does the addition of CaOH effect the Phosphorous in the fertilizer solution?

They are only bringing the pH up to 7 so unless the pH was very low at start (<<4.0) They aren't using much lime. Shoot I'd really be wondering what crazy source water was gettin used in the first place that started out with a very low pH.

CaOH doesnt stay as CaOH when added to an acid. It will go to some ionic form or bicarbonate (theoretical only), sulfate or chloride. You can get soluble calcium phosphate if the availble acid was phosphoric, and kept the pH from getting too high. The additional soluble Ca in the surface water won't effect the phospahte in the fert.

HOWEVER..... if the soluble Ca concentrations get too high, then you could cause a magnesium imbalance, which may intern give problems to P uptake and utilization in the plant. But we're getting into real maybe's here.

 

[Rick]

Man every time I try to post, I get timed out, and then need to copy/log back in/paste

 

[Rick]

The problem I see for Renee is the rain flushing the trays and removing the nutrients. IF this occurs the trays don't solve the nutrient problem. Plus if she plunges the current root system into water it may cause some root loss.

http://climatecenter.fsu.edu/products-services/data/1981-2010-normals/tampa

I pulled up this data for Tampa. Don't know if its crazier where Renee lives.

But 45 some odd inches of rain a year is not super crazy. Even in some of the wetest months it averages to a 1/4 inch per day (if it actually rained every day in that month).

I think the rain flush effect is over rated.

 

[Rick]

Plus if she plunges the current root system into water it may cause some root loss.

Start shallow and work up. Didn't say to submerge. The amount of water I suggested adding to a 5" pot would probably not even bring it up and inch. Or spread it out in even a broader tray.

A month or so ago Stone was extolling the virtues of permanent water in trays for plants that already had well developed root systems.

 

[gonewild]

I bought a cheap coffee bean grinder and blitzed the K-Lite to a uniform powder. Now I sleep better a night.

I sleep pretty good when I drink a cup of coffee but I'll try a cup of K-lite if it will make me sleep better.

 

[gonewild]

But we're getting into real maybe's here.

I think we need to look at the maybes in Renee's case. Since she is the only one reporting the possible P issue using K-lite.

 

[gonewild]

http://climatecenter.fsu.edu/products-services/data/1981-2010-normals/tampa

I pulled up this data for Tampa. Don't know if its crazier where Renee lives.

But 45 some odd inches of rain a year is not super crazy. Even in some of the wetest months it averages to a 1/4 inch per day (if it actually rained every day in that month).

I think the rain flush effect is over rated.

Well perhaps. I assume torrential rains to be a inch of water often.

 

[rcb]

I think we need to look at the maybes in Renee's case. Since she is the only one reporting the possible P issue using K-lite.

I told you I'm special

Well perhaps. I assume torrential rains to be a inch of water often.

Yes, that would be a good basis. I looked up the average rain fall for the two closest big enough towns to have it reported. It's a lot more than Tampa. The problem becomes though, we have more rain than the closest towns, due to storms coming in off the Gulf (don't mean tropical storms, just regular storms), so that isn't real accurate. If you would like to know, please pm and I'll let you know where I live. Believe me it rains a lot.

One time I was curious and I left a 5 gallon bucket out in the middle of the patio to see how long it would take to fill. It took about 10 days. No run off from anywhere, just sitting out in the rain.

Now we do have dry spells of course, but when it rains, it rains lol

 

[rcb]

Start shallow and work up. Didn't say to submerge. The amount of water I suggested adding to a 5" pot would probably not even bring it up and inch. Or spread it out in even a broader tray.

A month or so ago Stone was extolling the virtues of permanent water in trays for plants that already had well developed root systems.

I actually already do this for some of my wintertime inside plants to keep them from making a mess while they are inside.

 

[Rick]

I actually already do this for some of my wintertime inside plants to keep them from making a mess while they are inside.

Good then it shouldn't be shock when they go outside for the fast growing season.

 

[Rick]

I told you I'm special

One time I was curious and I left a 5 gallon bucket out in the middle of the patio to see how long it would take to fill. It took about 10 days. No run off from anywhere, just sitting out in the rain.

Now we do have dry spells of course, but when it rains, it rains lol

I'm sure it does. It used to be average for my area to get 48" per year (more than the Tampa average), and during the big floods we had a few years ago, we got 15+ inches in 24 hours.

But monster rains are the exception rather than the rule, so shouldn't design for the extremes but the norms.

If you can save a lot of rain water and get a TDS meter you could use it to even out the TDS of your tap water. When its down in that 20-50ppm range use as is. When its up to 200 then dilute it out with the rain water back to 50ppm. My well water TDS ranges from 200 to 300ppm so I use RO from work to dilute it down to around 20ppm.

http://www.currentresults.com/Weather/Florida/yearly-florida-rainfall.php

Looks like highest rainfall hits 70 inches over 138 days total. But that's SE Florida and you said coastal NW. Panhandle? Some of those places also push 70"

That's lots but not a deal breaker.

 

[gonewild]

I just bought a little tds meter at the hwd store to make a test.

My R0 water is 58ppm (5 year old cartridge).

I don't have a 1/3 tsp measure so I used 1/2 tsp.

1/2 tsp in one gallon of water gave a reading of 560 ppm
I added another 1/2 tsp and the reading went to 1060ppm.

To get the 1/2 tsp measure I used the K-lite as it came from the can being careful not to get to much of either fine or coarse. Carefully leveled off the excess so I am confident I had equal correct measures.

I don't have a gram scale here so no way to check the weight.

 

[Rick]

OK a tsp holds 5 ml, and Ray indicated that K lite is 15% liter than volume.

So that should be 4.25 g into a gallon (3.785 l/gal) = 1.12 grams or 1120ppm of TDS

On the Klite chart that comes out to 150ppm N.

Even taking out the 60ppm of your "RO water". That's 89% on target using a 1/2 tsp!!

Now if we take out for waters of hydration, then its probably spot on.