Paph tortipetalum

[Trithor]

Lovely flower Rick, it has great petal attitude and as already discussed, the pouch is amazing.

 

[Stone]

Nice. Hard to grow?

 

[Rick]

Not especially different to grow than appletonianum or bullenianum.

 

[Trithor]

Not growing any of them, does that mean it is difficult or easy?

 

[Rick]

Not growing any of them, does that mean it is difficult or easy?

If you have trouble with Barbata types like some of us (including myself) used to have, then somewhat difficult. But going to baskets and low K has made this group in general much easier for me.:wink:

This species may be sympatric with calosum var subleave or barbatum (Malay archipelago). So barbatum may be a good reference plant.

 

[Chicago Chad]

Rick-
What is the significance of using basket culture in a species like this? I can and have seen the benefit with this in micranthum and armenicaum because of the runners, but since it would not be for that reason I was uncertain.

 

[Rick]

Rick-
What is the significance of using basket culture in a species like this? I can and have seen the benefit with this in micranthum and armenicaum because of the runners, but since it would not be for that reason I was uncertain.

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18566&highlight=Mark+date

Check out this thread Chad.

It's not a panacea for all culture woes, but it was a good start for me before coming up with reduced K feeding (note that Marc is using K lite for his tigrinum).

http://www.slippertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20716

This is when we started looking at K inhibition to orchids.

 

[Chicago Chad]

Rick- I am aware of the argument for K lite and I myself am giving it a trial run over the next year. I am about 2 months in so far.

My question was to the benefit of basket culture on a paph that does not have runners? Is it that you just had more success with basket culture over traditional potting techniques, regardless of the substrate?

 

[Eric Muehlbauer]

I think basket culture is only practical in a greenhouse, where high humidity can be maintained. Baskets would allow perfect air circulation around the roots, and drying out wouldn't be a problem in high humidity. If I tried baskets in my house, or even outdoors with our inconsistent weather, I'd be feeding the composter.

 

[Stone]

Rick- I am aware of the argument for K lite and I myself am giving it a trial run over the next year. I am about 2 months in so far.

My question was to the benefit of basket culture on a paph that does not have runners? Is it that you just had more success with basket culture over traditional potting techniques, regardless of the substrate?

A paph will grow better/faster in a basket because of the free root run combined with greater air availability ( top, sides and bottom ) If you planted into a pot with the same volume of media it wouldn't work because of the restricted air exchage from the top of the medium only. The mix would become stale ( I'm not exactly sure what ''stale'' means but it probably has something to do with certain molds proliferating? ) and inhibit the roots or even kill them. It also has the benefit of being able to use large quantities of water with quicker drying and all the benifits of that. I planted an insigne into the floor of my greenhouse (100% larva) and its absolutely thriving. Its the free root run into a constantly fresh media that makes the difference. Theoretically you should be able to use large containers if your mix is 100% mineral or ''inert''

 

[UweM]

Hi Rick,

to my mind it is a true Paph. tortipetalum, which comes from the Barisan Mountain east of Payakumbuk (Central Sumatra).

It looks like Paph. johorensis from Gunong Panti (Johore) from the southern Malaysian Penisular.

More information can be found here: Orchid Digest 4 / 1985


Some times later, Paul Matthes collected on the island of Tioman another very similar Paphiopedilum which looks like Paph. johorensis (Orchid Digest 6/1985).


The opinion of some "experts": there are synonyms of bulleninanum

 

[limuhead]

There is only ONE way to tell if it is a TRUE tortipetalum. That is to bloom it at 1,150 foot elevation in Hawaii. Do you need my shipping address?

 

[Chicago Chad]

I think basket culture is only practical in a greenhouse, where high humidity can be maintained. Baskets would allow perfect air circulation around the roots, and drying out wouldn't be a problem in high humidity. If I tried baskets in my house, or even outdoors with our inconsistent weather, I'd be feeding the composter.

ditto.

I grow indoors and this is not a viable option. Regardless of the humidty problems, it tends to make a mess.

 

[Leo Schordje]

Rick,
to my eye, it looks like true tortipetalum. I started collecting Paphs in 1979, when Ray Rands was in business and there was no CITES restrictions for anything except elephant tusks and tiger pelts. At the time I quickly picked up every appletonianum and bullenianum related paph that Rands would offer. Unfortunately K-Lite wasn't around, and only my one plant of tortipetalum persists from those days. But before they slowly failed to thrive, I bloomed at least 6 different races of the bullenianum. You would kill for the red leafed version of bullenianum, from somewhere in Sumatra, the leaves had a wonderful red flush, with bright silvery tesselation. Just beautiful. I still shed a tear at the loss of this one. At the time I didn't realize that there would be just one batch imported, and never again. I still tear up about loosing that one.

I feel the bullenianum complex of geographic races, which includes tortipetalum and others is a true species, very distinct from the appletonianum/wolterianum/hainaniense group. Almost everyone who claims that there is no difference between appletonianum and bullenianum groups have never had a correctly identified plant in bloom in front of them. THere are a lot of appletonianum floating around being passed off as bullenianum or johorensis or tortipetalum. Very few true bullenianums are in cultivation. The shape of the staminode sheild on your plant is NOT the same as the staminode sheild on the appletonianum posted in this thread. Rick, you have the real deal. I'll post pictures of mine when it blooms.

 

[Leo Schordje]

No 'hooks' on the bullenianum staminode sheild, just the v notch.

Appletonianum has distinct 'hooks'

 

[Chicago Chad]

You would kill for the red leafed version of bullenianum, from somewhere in Sumatra, the leaves had a wonderful red flush, with bright silvery tesselation. Just beautiful. I still shed a tear at the loss of this one. At the time I didn't realize that there would be just one batch imported, and never again. I still tear up about loosing that one.

as would I; on description alone.

 

[Rick]

I got the plant from Glenn Decker, and I don't know what his source was.

I picked it up because it was quite different from the appletonianums I've had in the past, but I'm not prepared to defend its species status from all the bullenianum races that folks have discovered and named.

Maybe GD does??

 

[Trithor]

I got the plant from Glenn Decker, and I don't know what his source was.

I picked it up because it was quite different from the appletonianums I've had in the past, but I'm not prepared to defend its species status from all the bullenianum races that folks have discovered and named.

Maybe GD does??

Rick, am I reading this correctly, that you have a living example of one with a red flush to the leaves? If so, wont you post a pic that we can see what the differences are? (Please)

 

[UweM]

some pics for identification:

1 - Paph. celebesense

2 - Paph. bullenianum

3+4 - Paph. linii

5 - Paph. hainanense

6 - Paph. wolterianum

7 - Paph. hainanense ?

8 - Paph. appletonianum





and pics from the bullenianum complex:

 

[Chicago Chad]

Thanks UweM for the pics. Aside form the staminodes, as mentioned by Leo, and slight variations in the dorsal, they all look the same to me.