Paph tortipetalum

[Trithor]

The staminode differences are quite marked though. At what level of difference in the staminode would it be considered sufficient for sepparation of species?

 

[Hera]

INteresting pictures and good question. When does a difference count as a species not just a variation? Some species are quite variable and not separated and I wonder if this is a measure of a person's motivation to categorize it so. A more focused approach per se. At what limit are categorizations useful/ not useful.

 

[SlipperKing]

Very nice comparitive pictures, it is what is is, bullenianum complex. In geological times a very young seperation/isolation but not there yet. At this point, I would say variations of the same complex...bullenianum. maybe, in 50 thousand years from now we can come back and revisit this discussion!

 

[Trithor]

In 50 thousand years I will hold you to that! Perhaps then at the same time we can revisit the barbatum/callosum/viniferum group as well, and of course the old favourite villosum/affine/gratrixianum?

 

[SlipperKing]

It's a date!

 

[Rick]

The staminode differences are quite marked though. At what level of difference in the staminode would it be considered sufficient for sepparation of species?

In "Slipper Orchids of Vietnam (pg222)" Averyanov has a chart of 16 different staminode shapes for appletonianum. The shape range exceeds that of these bullenianum complex species posted by UweM.

So in comparison to appletonianum, I would say there is insufficient variation to warrant species status.

I think the only way to determine species status would be by a pollinator study.

 

[UweM]

for comparison - some pics from Paph. aplletonianum (No. 7,11,12) or Paph. wolterianum (No.8)

or Paph. cerveranum

 

[Ozpaph]

In 50 thousand years I will hold you to that!

Keep the beer cold.
I'll bring my own slippers!

 

[Leo Schordje]

Thank you UweM very much for the photos. Much appreciated.

 

[SlipperFan]

I agree -- interesting variations.

 

[Trithor]

Any discussion in 50k years will deserve comfy slippers and cold beer. I will supply snacks as well.

Thanks for posting the comparative pictures, great job!

 

[John M]

Rick, that first photo, taken "face on" to the flower nicely shows the peculiar petal shape (especially the tip), of tortipetalum. I found this feature to be unique to tortipetalum from among all the similar looking species. The petals don't have a spoon shape; but, rather, they almost look as if the spoon was cropped down. When I worked at a large orchid nursery, back in 1989, we imported a large assortment of wild collected species from Simanis Orchids. Paph tortipetalum was among them and they bloomed out to look just like your flower. To me, it's a very distinctive look. I would have no problems buying a flask of Paph. tortipetalum x self, using this clone as the parent.

 

[JeanLux]

Hi John!!!! Great to read you again!!!! Jean

 

[John M]

Hi Jean! Thanks!

 

[Rick]

Hi Jean! Thanks!

Ya!

Where have you been (and up too)?

 

[John M]

Just needed a break, Rick. You know....mid-life questioning of everything and trying to not be too overwhelmed with all of life's responsibilities.

 

[SlipperFan]

Yes -- welcome back, John!

 

[John M]

Thank you, Dot.